Awaria vs Respia for Self-Healing

[Hippocrates]

Who would be more beneficial for self-healing, Awaria or Respia?

Thanks,
Hippocrates

[Althus]

Respia. By a huge, huge ammount, Respia.

The best combination for improving general healing skills with a strong focus on selfheal is a 3:2 ratio of Spirtus and Respia, respectively. (1:1 if you're normally high respia, 3:1 if you're normally low respia. 3:2 is in the middle.).

[Hippocrates]

So, by this I'm assuming that Awaria is generally useless...

Thanks again,
Hippocrates

[Althus]

Right. Awaria has heavy dependencies on Faustus for effectiveness, and thus isn't much use at any level less than 4th circle with 300+ faustus.

When you get there, maybe train 50 Awaria, and more if you like it.

[Delirium]

Overall, yes Respia is far better than Awaria. I've trained LOTS of Respia (to maintain a 3:1 respus:fastus ratio). But....

I've also trained a small amont of Awaria, and I did notice a small improvement in my self-heal. So it's not totally useless. I'm not planning to train more any time soon, but I don't feel like I sent ten or so ranks down the drain either.

Also, the one flaw in focusing on spiritus and respia is that you don't get any higgy from either. I have pretty good self-heal, but right now the two things that make me fall the most are (1) mist and (2) things that can 1-hit me. All the self-healing in the world does you no good against things that 1-hit you - for that you need more higgy.

[Himitsu]

I was under the impression that Spiritus teaches Sespus, Faustus, Respia, Higgrus, and Rodnus. Did this change in the recent chaos storm?

[Kirth Gersen]

Thuja's numbers:

http://www.puddleby.dk/eva_spirtus.txt


/Kirth

[Lilly]

Thuja mentions all of her Spirtus numbers on that chart are unconfirmed. The higgrus is definitely off - i can say with accuracy that every 5 ranks of spirtus currently obtains you 1 rank of higgrus. The faustus is pretty much right on. I do know you defintitely recieve respia, and i believe some sespus as well, but i dont know how much. It isnt as much as the fuastus though.

Arteress Lai

[Delirium]

Ok, I stand corrected on the spiritus giving higgy. I didn't notice any higgy gain when I was training spiritus, but I've only trained 40-50 ranks so far (& I do plan to get more). Eva and Spiritus both have advantages. At low level to mid level (1st,2nd, and low 3rd circle), if you hunt mostly in large groups or are a town healer Spiritus is probably a better trainer for you. I like to hunt in smaller groups and frequently am the only healer, so I find I get more out of Eva's teachings. Both need to be balanced with other trainers.

OOC:

I think HGM and Joe have said that if they find breakdowns of the comprehensive trainers posted, they will change the composition of the training, so if Thuja's numbers were correct, they may not be anymore.

[Althus]

How'd you come by that # for Spirtus, Lilly? I'm 99% sure it's slightly less, maybe 1 in 6 or 7, because "A friend" had "better pupils" with Higgrus when he hit 500 Spirtus, which would correspond to 100 Higgrus by your accounts. He wasnt' far from it, though, but I don't have the numbers.

As to Spirtus' usefulness in groups, I'd say that Delirium's statements only apply if you're both a) the only healer and b) someone who likes to tag. A good healer who isn't bogged down by lag (I refuse to use the word "fog" or anything corresponding to it. It's not weather. It might be some disease that the exiles refer to as "lag" because it makes their muscles sluggish, but that's another rant) will be able to dodge 99% of the monsters a group may encounter. If they're a 1-healer group, chances are that the bigger problem for the healer will be Horus, since people are going to be falling a lot.

For both rescues, large hunts, and small hunts with multiple healers, Spirtus is great. For solo hunting and being the sole healer, not so great, but what would a healer be doing solo hunting?

[Lilly]

You are right Althus, it is actually 1 rank of higgrus for every 6 ranks of spirtus. I hit 50 higgrus when i got up to 300 spirtus, (having never trained any ranks of higgrus previously) and miscalculated the numerics. Math isnt my strong suit.

[Alby]

All this following is OOC and such, beware, beware.


exactly 50 spirtus gave me "good to see you" with Higgrus.

-Alby

PS: ehrm.. that was a spirtus test with another character. Alby is currently training spirtus, since the test was *so* successfull, and I just LOVE spirtus :)

[Nephilim]

Originally posted by Althus

(1:1 if you're normally high respia, 3:1 if you're normally low respia. 3:2 is in the middle.).

What is "normally" high/low respia? Do you mean that races differ or that characters differ.

If there are differences between races, who has high and who has low respia?

[Althus]

"Really High" respia means that you don't lose health when healing with a moonstone/cad and sylphstone. Requires a 6:1 or so ratio of Respia:faustus.

"High" means that you don't lose health when healing with a moonstone and selfhealing yourself at the same time. Maybe a 3:1 ratio.

"Normal" means that you don't lose spirit while healing, but you do lose some health, if slowly. 2:1 ratio works for this.

"Low" means that you lose both health and spirit while healing, but slow enough that it's not a major problem. Probably a 1.25-1.5:1 ratio, here.

"Really low" means that you lose both health and spirit so rapidly while healing that you can't get a 100 histia fighter from 0 to full in one session, and need to recharge. Fighters are annoyed by this, unless you got this way via training ungodly ammounts of Faustus, like Mirhil (for example) did.

[Sargon]

Althus wrote:

"Really low" means that you lose both health and spirit so rapidly while healing that you can't get a 100 histia fighter from 0 to full in one session, and need to recharge. Fighters are annoyed by this...

Annoyed huh? :) Any fighter who feels annoyed when I heal them just let me know.. I don't like letting exiles fallen behind but if someone feels like it.. to each his/her/its own! :)

Sargon

[Hippocrates]

I've only had fighters complain about my lack of Faustus. It was kind of rude, but...

/action shrugs.

...they just found a different healer.

Hippocrates

[Althus]

I can confidently say that lack of respia to the point of needing a break every 10 seconds is much more annoying to fighters than lack of faustus.

As the famous Argh put it, "The best healer in the world is the one healing you" (emphasis added)

[Konoko]

Any healer is faster than my troilus! :)

I've never complained or ever even seen the need to complain. I have had healers apologise though which I always found kind of funny. They're a healer and their healing me - why apologise? I guess some healers lack self-confidence or perhaps have had complaints or something...

Any fighter is lucky to have a healer around to help!

Konoko

[Hippocrates]

I've apologized before. I usually do it when a fighter has an ungodly amount of Histia (I think that's the right trainer...) and not much Troilus. I usually hit red about the time they hit green. [:D]

Hippocrates

[Delirium]

The correct response to a fighter who complains about the speed of your healing is to tell them to train more spiritus, if they are in such a hurry.

[Sargon]

Delirium, I wouldn't go that far and tell fighters what they should study and what not.

[Konoko]

No of course not! Not Sargon!
He wouldn't do something like subtly suggest fighters should train Spiritus! He'd be yelling it from the rooftops!

:)


And then there's always Rodnus or whatever for 4th circle fighters (or is it 3rd?)...

Konoko

[Himitsu]

I believe it's a 4th-circle fighter trainer and have heard that it caps at 50 trainings and has as much effectiveness as 200 Spiritus training. Since Rodnus is so much more effective than Spiritus, I'd be surprised if any fighter trains Spiritus.

[Konoko]

If fighters have lots of histia, I wouldn't be surprised if some are going to train a little spiritus. I have 100+ histia and have approx 25 spritius. Once I pass 3rd I plan to go back to training regia and histia (and get some more skea to pass Lerris :)


The 4th circle is FAR, FAR away from when someone starts out. And I still see it as FAR, FAR away with my 910 or so ranks.

As a total guess, I think the majority of 4th circle fighters must easily have 1100-1200 or so ranks as just a starting point with those actually getting 4th perhaps having much more ranks. Anyone have more solid numbers? What kind of total # of ranks does a fighter have when he/she reaches 4th?

I'll have WAY more ranks than that by the time I get to 4th I think though. I haven't even passed 3rd yet and I have like 910 ranks.


Konoko

[Kiriel]

4th circle is definitely very far away when you start out. Folks have made 4th in an ooc year I think by training exactly for it and rank whoring, but that's pretty uncommon. (to follow the pass circles quick training regimen I'd consult with Michael or Jo) I've been around for almost 2 ooc years, and I estimate that I have at least 3-4 more ooc months of training to go before I can make 4th. I think I have currently about 1200 ranks. It really does vary depending on what you train tho, with more atkus and detha or histia, and less things like baking, pathfinding, etc., I would expect it'd be easier to pass.

I doubt I'll bother with Rodnus when I make 4th tho unless I decide to get more histia because currently I really don't have all that much histia (better than I used to be tho) and healing me doesn't take overly long. Might get just a bit (perhaps 10 ranks) for the heck of it tho.

[Althus]

I predict that soon 50 Rodnus training will be as must-have for 4th circle fighters as 200 Atkus. There is absolutely no situation in which Rodnus won't help you stay alive. After combat, it may provide no particular advantage in getting healed, but what about during combat, when you have a cad on you? The more healing you get, the less likely that (insert your favorite tough beast here) will kill you badly.

[Konoko]

So it's about 120 to 150 Atkus for 3rd circle. Althus - are you saying about 200 Atkus is what's needed for the 4th circle test?

[Althus]

On average, 220 is needed to comfortably hit an Orga Fury from the front. Some races need less, and some people have lots of luck, so 200 is about the beginning of the "absolutely necessary" zone for 4th circle.

[Kiriel]

I've been able to hit furies pretty well since around the 200 atkus mark, although I've gotten better the more Evus I've trained. I think I have somewhere in the 210-220 atkus range now and furies are pretty easy to hit for me now although I still suck at wraths and greater wraiths are sometimes hard to hit before they swing.

[Konoko]

ok - thanks!

I just assumed it was around 250 atkus. So at least that's good that onw wouldn't necessarily have to train that high for 4th.

What is the 4th circle test?
An Orga Fury, a green noid, a greater wraith, and an orga wrath?

The toughest being the wrath?

[Kiriel]

God no! The wrath is in the 5th test I think. 4th is just a greater wraith, a fury and a green noid. Most folks I think have the most trouble with the green noid. I'm currently working on learning to take out the greater wraith. I got him red once. Once I can take him out I'll start trying to get the fury too.

[Althus]

Wrath is 6th circle, along with a sasquatch and 2 midnight wendies (with pebbles) :)

5th circle isn't too heavy on the atkus requirements. The same Atkus you pass 4th with will probably do, since there's just a lava beetle (no flame), a blood wyrm, and a banshee. 5th circle is all about kill rate.

In fact, I've noticed that each test has a sort of "theme". 2nd circle is about surviving, 3rd is about being able to hit, 4th is about not getting hit, 5th is about kill rate, and 6th is about histia/luck.

All the healer tests are about Faustus/Higgrus *grumble* and the Mystic tests are about <censored>.

[Jeanne]

Originally posted by Hippocrates
Who would be more beneficial for self-healing, Awaria or Respia?

Spiritus contains Rodnus which not only makes it easier for other healers to heal you but for you to heal yourself. In addition, Spiritus contains some other teachings (Faustus, Higgrus, Respia) that are helpful. It might be a good idea to train at least a small amount with Spiritus for the Rodnus training. I recommend at least 100 trainings.

[Babajaga]

Note on Rodnus and fourth circle test.

When I passed fourth, some had made it with around 1000 ranks - other were late - like me- with close to 1300. But you are getting close around 1100 - depending on what you have trained, and luck. Luck is a huge factor, as is your shoe condition....

As for Rodnus - I see most fighters from 5th and up have it. With the amount of damage the beasties do in those levels, you really need some histia. You should be able to take two or three hits from an Orga Hatred without falling apart. And you quickly learn not to worry about slaughter rate anymore. You cannot rely on balthus/detha as the only defense because of the luckhits. In that level - Histia is a defense trainer of sorts as well. SO, rodnus is almost a must, if you want to stay friendly with your healerfriends:)

A fighter with loads of histia and no rodnus is not very popular among healers....

Babajaga

[Konoko]

I'm no where close to even worrying about the 4th circle test (let alone the 5th), but how much histia do you recommend?

[Babajaga]

Originally posted by Konoko
I'm no where close to even worrying about the 4th circle test (let alone the 5th), but how much histia do you recommend?

I hate recommending anything usually, since it