New Professional Skills List Scrolls

[Kiriel]

I'm just finished up and posted scrolls for listing professional tailors, bakers and brewers, similar to the pathfinders list. You can find them all linked from the front page of the Winds of Dawn Scrolls (http://www.windsofdawn.org/). Please spread the word and encourage your friends to add themselves to the list if qualified, or add them yourself if you're sure they meet the requirements. The bakers and brewers cutoff is simpler since those skills can be maxed out, but for the tailors I set a minimum level for the list so it can mostly be used to find professional tailors who offer a significant discount from Striss (I set it at 200 because that's puts the cost of mending at around 1/2 Striss and it's a nice round number).

Let me know if there are any problems I should know about, but I think they should be ok since the code is based straight off the pathfinders list.

[Alby]

Great, If anyone ever writes guides to baking and brewing, I will add links to that :)

Even though I wonder what exactly a "full" brewer / baker is heh heh heh.


Hugs,
Alby

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Alby
Great, If anyone ever writes guides to baking and brewing, I will add links to that :)

Even though I wonder what exactly a "full" brewer / baker is heh heh heh.

A full baker/brewer is one who has trained as far as the current limit is. I think it's 45 ranks for both although I'm not sure. After you've maxed the training, you can bake or brew every single recipe although there are some things you can make even with less than full training.

[Kalian/Kodel]

Hey,

I think that the tailor level should be at 250 because that about 1/2 and almost anyone can get 200 sewing rank and then claim they are a proffessional and steal someones clothes. Also they should be well recognized as a trustworthy tailor to be put on the list so that stealing dosent happen because someone choose to pick one off the ppl off your list that steals. just my opinion tho [:D]


Kodel

[Kiriel]

As the list says, you should still verify a person's training and get references before using them as a tailor. This list is self directed, anyone can add themselves, but hopefully folks using the list will be smart enough not to just use anyone they find randomly. I've heard you are thinking of creating a guild and I think that's a great idea- that would be a better choice for a list of folks that's carefully managed- this is more just for general reference. I know the 1/2 Striss mark is below 250, and believe it or not, 250 or even 200 Sartorio ranks is no easy thing for most folks. I want it to also be low enough that if someone wants to be a tailor in addition to a profession, instead of just a strict library tailor, that the goal is achievable.

I know for sure that baking maxes out at 40. Brewing I believe is 42 or 43 (I have no idea why it's such an odd number).

[Altir]

Aye, ye don't haft ta be fully trained ta brew all dem brews - but close. Ah could do dem all around 40-42. But trainin dinna stop until 45.

Ye kin brew dem all between 40-45, but ye fully trained at 45. Ah dunno why, cept durin me trainin period ah could mess up ah batch. Now ah haven't messed one up... yet. /action knocks on his helmet.

Altir

[Himitsu]

I think it would be easier to find the professional list by grouping them together so it's easier to see the lists, especially if you add new ones in the future.

You could also have lists of Skea and Dentir with the same requirements as sewing. Anyone over 200 Skea or 200 Dentir can be considered a professional skinner and mandible-puller. What with the higher furs being found in the Valley and Kizmia's Island, knowing who has a chance of successfully getting them would be useful to hunting parties.

Another idea would be a potion-making list so if you need a Tykan Healing potion, you could know easily who can make them.

Just some idle ideas from a fertile mind. [:D]

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Himitsu
Just some idle ideas from a fertile mind. [:D] Hey, those are great ideas Himi, I second all of them.
Drablak

[Kiriel]

That's a good idea Himitsu. If I'm gonna start making more of these lists I should probably rewrite some of this code to genericize it (right now I'm just copying the code from page to page, but I could use the same functions with a few minor modifications). I'm wondering if 200 is even needed for the skinning and mandibles, anyone have a better idea about the number of skea needed for some of the higher end skins in the various hunting grounds? I'm thinking maybe 100 might be enough for a lot of stuff.

For potion making I'd probably need separate lists for each one since I don't want folks to need to edit their potions, but perhaps I can group things in a more useful manner.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Kiriel
That's a good idea Himitsu. If I'm gonna start making more of these lists I should probably rewrite some of this code to genericize it (right now I'm just copying the code from page to page, but I could use the same functions with a few minor modifications). I'm wondering if 200 is even needed for the skinning and mandibles, anyone have a better idea about the number of skea needed for some of the higher end skins in the various hunting grounds? I'm thinking maybe 100 might be enough for a lot of stuff.

For potion making I'd probably need separate lists for each one since I don't want folks to need to edit their potions, but perhaps I can group things in a more useful manner.

I base the 200 for Skea based on what I've read on Felicity's scrolls and her trips to Kizmia's Island. She goes there regularly and has 150 Skea. She said that her group's coin earnings went up dramatically after getting so much Skea training so I presume they were missing a lot of skins before then. I also have heard this rule of thumb, Rhys thinks, "that's true.. think of the skea level as 4-5 times the skin" So with 200 Skea you can reliably skin up to 40-50c skins which aren't unheard of in the Valley or Kizmia's Island or the other tough places. I think if you can skin that high, you'd definitely qualify as a master of skinning.

I'm not so sure about mandible-pulling since I haven't seen mandibles worth that much. I don't even know if there are any mandibles worth 40-50c as even the big crawlers are worthless most of the time. Looking over my records, the most reliable source of mandibles are Noids (Noid Cavern) and Stinging Beetles (Valley) with the Stinging Beetles being worth a significant amount (up to 25c at least). Perhaps there are other mandibles on KI that I haven't heard about so I think that requiring 200 Dentir trainings to be a master mandible-extractor is also good.

For the potions, I was thinking of one page and having different sections on it for every potion. I don't know if that's possible but is just what I envisioned.

I've also heard that Skea and probably Dentir are low-slaughter so they're good for an otherwise useless person **cough**apprentice**cough**mystic**cough*** to contribute and be worthwhile to bring along as well as earning money.

* I'm just making fun of being useless, although I'd love to go the Valley and having good Skea/Dentir would probably be the only way that I'd get invited and be useful; either that and/or pathfinding.

[Archemar]

Hello,

I would have a hard time disagreeing with Himitsu. The bad new is I intend to keep Skae on her toe, obvioulsy there will be more work .... (and I only get to the second room)

Archemar.
(Lord Before profession ?)

[Fist of Fluff]

I would put the Master Skinner at fewer ranks than 200. 150 Skins everything but the really huge furs. Dentir seems to be more effective at lower levels than Skea. 50 is enough for everything in Noids with few exceptions, and 100 pulls the teeth of most of the big Beetles and Scarmis. 150 here as well would nab just about everything.

I extracted a 103c Scarmis Queen mandible once with no training. It stuck in my butt when she bit me.

[Lundar]

I think 100 Skea should be enough to be listed. I mean, if you're just looking for a skinner that you want to take coin-whoring, you're probably not going to care whether someone has 100 or 200 Skea.

I also think it would be helpful if all the lists were grouped together, maybe under a separate heading, so that you could find them more easily.

Just my 2c.

-Lundar

[T'rr'll]

On these skills with no cap, would it be possable to list the number (or message) with the name?? Then people could make up their own minds who has enough. (Maybe message would be best, it can be verifyed at any time)

T'rr'll [;)]

[Lex]

Originally posted by Kiriel
I'm wondering if 200 is even needed for the skinning and mandibles, anyone have a better idea about the number of skea needed for some of the higher end skins in the various hunting grounds?

Almost no one that isn't a lib character has 200 Skea, and I've never met anyone with 150 Dentir.

80-100 skea is enough to hunt LP and savanna for hours not miss any skins. For valley and KI, you want maybe 120-160. For midnight wendies and the really high KI skins I'm guessing 200.

60 Dentir is enough for just about all noid mandibles. Beetles vary so much it's hard to tell, but some of them are really high, like 40-60c, and you'd need probably 150 for those.

I think if you DID make a skea/dentir list, you might want to just set the margin at 100. Not sure if there really is a better way without it getting too complicated to be useful.

Lex

[Lex]

Originally posted by Himitsu
...So with 200 Skea you can reliably skin up to 40-50c skins which aren't unheard of in the Valley or Kizmia's Island or the other tough places. I think if you can skin that high, you'd definitely qualify as a master of skinning.

Here are my thoughts for Skea:

0-50 beginner
51-100 intermediate
101-200 advanced
210-400 expert
401+ master

Of course, there are very few that achieve these high ranks, but that's okay.

Lex

[Lex]

Originally posted by Fist of Fluff
I extracted a 103c Scarmis Queen mandible once with no training. It stuck in my butt when she bit me.

and THAT is what killed her, right?

Lex

[Altir]

Hmm...

Ah always thought dat da amount o' skea / dentir determined two things:

yer chance ta skin/pull manible.
yer amount o' da total skin/teeth ye might actually git in value.

When ah miss ah skin, seems it always high. Ah thinkin it shows da total value generated fer da critter when da critter twas "born". Me skea gives me ah chance ta skin it 'n den ah certain amount ah might actually git from da total worth o' da skin. Da higher me skea, da better chance ah kin git more coins outta da pelt (or mandibles).

Parhaps some who knows could correct this thought o' mine?

So, fer ranking em... Masters should be high. Ah think 250+ at least. 400 sounds bettah. Apprentice 25 - 75 parhaps? Journeyman 76 - 250? Ah dunno, ah making it up. Ah still toes 'n finally thinkin fer whar ah kin go ah need more skea. 150 - 200 nowadays. But ah wanna wait until ah reach 3rd (ah SOOOO close) before ah change me trainin habits.

Ah like da ideas - but let's keep it simple as possible!

Altir

[Lex]

Originally posted by Altir
Ah always thought dat da amount o' skea / dentir determined two things:

yer chance ta skin/pull manible.
yer amount o' da total skin/teeth ye might actually git in value.

You can only recover the skin for the full value or not at all. You can't get 10 coins from a 20c fur because your skea was high enough for 10c.

Lex

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Altir
Hmm...

Ah always thought dat da amount o' skea / dentir determined two things:

yer chance ta skin/pull manible.
yer amount o' da total skin/teeth ye might actually git in value.

When ah miss ah skin, seems it always high. Ah thinkin it shows da total value generated fer da critter when da critter twas "born". Me skea gives me ah chance ta skin it 'n den ah certain amount ah might actually git from da total worth o' da skin. Da higher me skea, da better chance ah kin git more coins outta da pelt (or mandibles).

Parhaps some who knows could correct this thought o' mine?

I remember Helpful GM talking about this in length and Skea/Dentir only determines your chance to skin/pull and not the value. When you miss the skin and they are all high, that's because the value of the fur is beyond your Skea limit. There's always good luck to get a fur beyond your Skea level and bad luck to miss a fur that's below your Skea level. However, there's a maximum that you will reliably skin and that's based on your Skea level. If a critter is worth 20c and you skin it, you will get the full 20c no matter how much Skea you have.

So, fer ranking em... Masters should be high. Ah think 250+ at least. 400 sounds bettah. Apprentice 25 - 75 parhaps? Journeyman 76 - 250? Ah dunno, ah making it up. Ah still toes 'n finally thinkin fer whar ah kin go ah need more skea. 150 - 200 nowadays. But ah wanna wait until ah reach 3rd (ah SOOOO close) before ah change me trainin habits.

Remember that it typically takes 600 lessons to get a ledger with a trainer so saying that someone with 200 lessons can be considered skilled in the skill is quite leniant in my opinion.

There can be two lists, one for those with 100-199 lessons and one with 200+ lessons although that would require removing the person from the former list when they qualify for the latter list and I don't think Kiriel wants that.

I also maintain 200 Dentir for the list since while there are no expensive mandibles now, that could change in the future.

[Kiriel]

Originally posted by T'rr'll
On these skills with no cap, would it be possable to list the number (or message) with the name?? Then people could make up their own minds who has enough. (Maybe message would be best, it can be verifyed at any time)

T'rr'll [;)]

The problem with listing a number is then people must be able to edit it later if it changes. Although I could add functionality to do that it would either require a password or allowing everyone to modify everyone else's information, and I think that's just not a good idea. Having multiple tiers to be listed in isn't as big a problem however, I could automatically remove them from the first when they were added to the second. Perhaps that would be a solution to the problem. I will give it some thought.

[Konoko]

Just an aside:
The Windy Titles page (http://www.windsofdawn.org/windytitles.html) has special windy titles are various abilities:

- 50 and higher Skea -> Levanter
- Pathfinding -> Chinook

This was before these other things like brewing, tailoring, baking, etc were available.
While we're discussing these abilities, perhaps we can add some windy title names for these abilities as well.

Note the 50 Skea level for a Levanter. I still think this level is probably fine for our windy title uses. We're not saying the person is a master or whatever these list scrolls are denoting.
I assume the Chinook is for a full pathfinder. However I believe we were saying stuff like Chinook for NWF. So if you are a full pathfinder you would just be a chinook. Otherwise you'd have to clarify (i.e. chinook for snaggy or chinook or wisher's gate).


We could now have new wind titles for say the full cap on baking, brewing. And windy titles for say 50 (just a guess at a round number) in dentir, sewing.

Am I missing anything else?


So any suggestions? When Aerick and I made this original list, I think we were mostly using a thesaurus to find various windy words and then determining based on their meaning what area they would be good for. At least that6's the way I remember doing it.

Konoko

[Kiriel]

I've revamped the tailors list to contain three different levels of skill, 50-149 ranks qualifies you as a skilled tailor, 150-299 ranks is master tailor, and 300+ ranks is expert tailor. Hopefully this should make even Kodel and WormTounge happy :)

Let me know if this new structure looks good- if so I will do something similar for skea and dentir, and I'm not sure yet what I want to do about the potions but I'm sure I can come up with a good system.

[Lex]

Originally posted by Kiriel
...150-299 ranks is master tailor, and 300+ ranks is expert tailor.

Sounds good, but I think in general the term master is considered higher than expert, no?

Lex

[Kiriel]

Personally I think expert seems like it would be higher than master, but perhaps someone could suggest better terms? I've also gone ahead and created the skea and dentir specialists lists, but it'll be easy for me to just go and change the titles of the skill levels if someone comes up with clearer terms.

[Konoko]

That's cool Kiri.
A nice one-stop place to find out all that info!

[Himitsu]

Since master and expert are synonyms, I have some other suggestions.

You can use the mystic titles such as...
Apprentice
Journeyman
Master

Or you can use the Heroes of Might & Magic titles
Basic
Advanced
Expert
Master
Grandmaster

I'll leave it up to you decide.

[Kiriel]

I like that Himitsu, I think I'll change it to Apprentice, Journeyman, Master later today.

[Kiriel]

I changed the lists to use Himitsu's suggested titles, and today I added an alchemists list, so I think at this point all the sections should be done unless folks have any other suggestions :)

[Hor]

Just curious after seeing the Alchemists-List..
(btw, good job Kiri! Love em all! 8)

What is the energy potion for? I remember there was once discussion
about its benefits, but I don't know if there was a good result about this..

HWC Hor

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Hor
JWhat is the energy potion for? I remember there was once discussion
about its benefits, but I don't know if there was a good result about this..

I did some tests and discovered that you did briefly for an indeterminate time walk and run slightly faster but it wasn't noticeable. I took the Studies page from my scrolls because future studies and investigations will be done with Eyes of Puddleby and posted on my Yahoo! Groups page.

[Lundar]

The results of the energy potion are actually quite noticeable if you drink more than one potion at once.

-Lundar

[Himitsu]

Now that you can buy honey for cooking and Scavenger Bird Eggs are so prevalent I guess there is not other reason as of yet to use Myrm eggs. Considering it just takes 5 ranks to learn the potion it isn't a total waste I suppose if you have to do a lot of running from fast critters. Not that I'm going to learn how to make the potion myself as I have a gazillion trainers that it will be better put.

I'm still waiting for a good potion to make in my alchemy bowl. :mad: