Training Plan for a Healer

[Sunoril]

I've decided to join the Healers' Guild. Right now I have about 10 ranks from Bodrus, and 5 from Diggin. What I'm thinking of doing is going for a few Spirtus, and then going to see Master Hekus again (I have the Bell, Book, and Candle). Or is Spirtus a waste of time at this point? Anyway, after get my moonstone, I figure to study with Eva for a while, then maybe Higgrus. After that, I dunno. Is that a reasonable plan?

[Kiriel]

Spiritus is useful for a healer, but it may not be one of the more useful trainers to you when you're newer. Spiritus gives you ranks in a few healer trainers, and also some Rodnus, which makes people heal you faster. This is quite useful when rodding things (healer absorbing damage and being healed by the other healers). Hidden can tell you quite a bit about the usefulness of Spiritus. But when you're pretty new, you probably aren't going to have a lot of call for rodding things and you may want to focus on the other healer trainers like Faustus, Respia, Eva and Higgrus first, and get some Spiritus when you think you're going to need to rod things.

Whatever you do, I suggest getting a lot of respia to go with it :)

[Delirium]

Since you don't yet have a moonstone, spiritus is a reasonable trainer. After you get your moonstone, switching to Eva is a good idea. Eventually, you will probably want to specialize somehow, but that's up to you. Everyone has their own oppinions - there is no "wrong" way to train, although some will try to tell you so.[;)]

[Althus]

Since I'm over 200 spirtus now, I can do the pitch just as well as Master Hidden.

Personally, I think a healer should train primarily either Eva or Spirtus, and then round that training out with whatever other trainers they want. Eva and Spirtus both form a core of training that will be universally useful, but they have different mixes. Like Deli said, there's no particularly "wrong" way to train, but if you want to specialize in something, you could go one of the following ways:

[Kirth Gersen]

Sunoril,

In a thread like this, you're bound to get much good advice, and quite a deal of opinionated advice (which may or may not be good [;)] ). Like, I could say that my dozen of lessons with master Bodrus are my most useless tranings I ever spent time on, and such.

But. I am not going to post my usual rant.

Nai. I want to point out the obvious (something else I like doing), and recommend you to approach healers in the Lands and ask them to take you with them. Hunt with them, rescue together with them, do real stuff with them. That way, you get some real examples on how various trainings work in practice. Ask how and why they trained and when in their career they trained that. I for one would love to have you around, and I'll give you my opionions on things. [:D] This is what I did from the very start, hanging with as many experienced healers and fighters (and some mysticks too) and watching and learning and asking. (*)

And, do also remember that 1000 lessons with Eva won't do you any good if you are not prepared to learn how to use them. Lessons with teachers are only one component in becoming a competent healer. The other component is what you brought to the Lands in the first place: you. The only way to train the you behind the ranks of training, is to spend time with people, healing, healing, healing, learning, learning, learning... constantly reevaluate your behaviour and your actions.

Choose tools (i.e. training) after who you are.

Semi-humbly yours,
/Kirth the Wise (**)

-----
(*) Look where that got me... freakish specialist wannabe... Go figure.
(**) This is of course a self-imposed mock epithet, as I am quite the newbie around most people in the Lands.

[Mehan]

Listen to Kirth! He's wise.


if you DO decide to train Eva, I suggest getting at least 20 respia BEFORE you do that. Eva is a bit light on Respia, and later you'll start to regret it. So I suggest taking little breaks from Eva to trian with Respia every once in a while.

The first thing I did in the lands was trian 200 respia. That left me with NO self heal whatsoever. It was a bad choice. I'm still making up for it now.

[Anaeka]

Kirth, you found Bodrus useless? That's pretty odd, in fact I think his trainings were probably the most important of my early career as a healer (however, I did train with him until I couldn't anymore).

Mehan is right, Respia is pretty important, especially if you train Eva. I trained with her for about 80 lessons, but I decided it wasn't exactly my type of trainer, I wanted to fine tune everything on my own, so I trained with each individual trainer until I felt I was at the point that I wanted to be. That's another good way of training if you want more control than what Eva will give you, but then again, probably not the best if you aren't sure of what trainers do in the beginning.

[Delirium]

Mehan said:

[QUOTE]The first thing I did in the lands was trian 200 respia./QUOTE]

I think the dear Zo means 200 Eva. Zo's are not terribly good with directions and names, you know.

[Himitsu]

I also trained fully with Bodrus and, while it's really not good at enabling you to fight well, it does a pretty good job at keeping you from falling since it has Histia/Higgrus and the balance/defense also lets me block the smaller critters while I'm running away from the big ones. For a mystic, that's important.

I still fall at least once on every hunt though, just to keep up the tradition. [:D]

[Konoko]

I think the dear Zo means 200 Eva. Zo's are not terribly good with directions and names, you know.

Thanks - I was confused! I don't usually follow all this healer mumbo jumbo but I do have a healer character started so I've started to kind of follow this stuff when I can... :)

But there do seem to be tons of different methods to train. It's kind of confusing. I find the fighter stuff so much easier to follow but I'm probably a little more experienced in that area.

Konoko

[Konoko]

I still fall at least once on every hunt though, just to keep up the tradition.

Good for you Himi - traditions are very important! :)

[Mehan]

oop, I meant Eva. Silly Zo.


The plural of Zo, is Zo.

IE: "Look at that stupid Zo!" and "Look at all those stupid Zo!"

[Delirium]

OOPS! My bad. I used the wrong form for the plural. The plural of Zo is Zoo.

[Sunoril]

Originally posted by Mehan
Listen to Kirth! He's wise.


if you DO decide to train Eva, I suggest getting at least 20 respia BEFORE you do that. Eva is a bit light on Respia, and later you'll start to regret it. So I suggest taking little breaks from Eva to trian with Respia every once in a while.


Yes, I found Kirth's advice quite good. [:)]

And Kirth, I intend to take you up on your offer. Soon. [:D]

[Delirium]

OOPS! My bad. I used the wrong form for the plural. The plural of Zo is Zoo.

[Kirth Gersen]

Anaeka wrote:
Kirth, you found Bodrus useless? That's pretty odd, in fact I think his trainings were probably the most important of my early career as a healer (however, I did train with him until I couldn't anymore).
Aye, it may have to do with who I am and what kind of healer I am. Nowadays I rarely tag. Perhaps once every four or five Zodics. Aye, really.

I stopped tagging for quite a while ago now. I find that I need to focus completely on the healing in order to do a passable job at that. Focusing on tagging critters'd be too much for my poor brain. Of course I slaughter rats, vermine, LVs and GVs, and sometimes spiders and the occasional IP, too, but that is for pure survival and making the rescue easier.

Somehow, even though I only have a few lessons with Bodrus, and Higgrus telling me I'm one of his Better pupils (Eva I just spoke to in the beginning of my career, now I regard it as ten introductory lessons by a teacher who's seen her better days... but that is quite an opinionated opinion, not to be taken seriously at all :eek: ) , I brick more and more critters. Or, am I just hallucinating? I did nai think Higgrus taught me like I hear Detha does. Or?

Sunoril wrote:

Yes, I found Kirth's advice quite good.

And Kirth, I intend to take you up on your offer. Soon.
Thank you. We'll meet in the Lands! Never hesitate to ask me for help, either. If I am busy I usually try to gather others to help out, whoever is fallen.

Mehan wrote these very wise words:
if you DO decide to train Eva, I suggest getting at least 20 respia BEFORE you do that. Eva is a bit light on Respia, and later you'll start to regret it. So I suggest taking little breaks from Eva to trian with Respia every once in a while.
Aye!!! If there is anything I need more than Horus (and a few ranks of Sylpha until she is satisfied with me) it is Respia. You can never ever have too much Respia. Actually, for a very long time I trained nothing but Horus (1/2 the time), and Respia or Spirtus (1/2 the time). Look where that got me![:D]

Yours,
Kirth

[Anaeka]

Well, actually I don't necessarily like the Bodrus for tagging. In fact I like it because it helped my Higgy a little bit (since I don't really train it) and it allowed me to sort of brick a lot of the little junk that sometimes gets on me when I'm healing. I slaughter Zerkies, so tags are pretty much meaningless to me now as well. Just my opinion...

[Sunoril]

Originally posted by Kirth Gersen
Mehan wrote these very wise words:

[snipped]

Aye!!! If there is anything I need more than Horus (and a few ranks of Sylpha until she is satisfied with me) it is Respia. You can never ever have too much Respia. Actually, for a very long time I trained nothing but Horus (1/2 the time), and Respia or Spirtus (1/2 the time). Look where that got me![:D]

Yours,
Kirth

I didn't mean to ignore Mehan's suggestion. In fact, I intend to take her advice and get some Respia early on. Thanks, Mehan. [:D]

[Kirth Gersen]

Anaeka wrote:
Well, actually I don't necessarily like the Bodrus for tagging. In fact I like it because it helped my Higgy a little bit (since I don't really train it) and it allowed me to sort of brick a lot of the little junk that sometimes gets on me when I'm healing. I slaughter Zerkies, so tags are pretty much meaningless to me now as well. Just my opinion...
Aye, I understand. If you see me about in the Lands, you will probably notice that I get hit quite a bit, for a 3rd circle healer. Obviously, this has to do, partly, with my non-training with Bodrus and my relatively few Higgrus lessons.

Tagging is, in my opinionated opinion, mainly something newer (1st and maybe 2nd circle) healers can indulge in. When in the right group, where fighters accept that behaviour. I was myself a very keen tagger in my early years in the Lands. That is another thread, all together. But if you do want to tag, and get the possibility, do try to get a dagger or a shiny dagger, Sunoril. It makes a tagger's life so much easier and fun.

Again, Sunoril, as this is your thread, you need to watch and ask people in the Lands. Everything else will be pleasant Library chats, which are indeed very pleasant, especially when offered some catnip brandy by Konoko!

Cheers!
/Kirth

[Aethelred]

At this point in my career, Bodrus is the biggest waste of 100 ranks I ever spent. I would rather have an additional 100 Eva, or even 100 pure Higgrus. The only real benefit to Bodrus for me is that rats and vermine whiff me - but they swing so much their luck hits still get me more often than not.

Bodrus WAS useful to me as a younger (1st-2nd circle) healer as I did try to get tags in alot, and those tags did help me. However, given that Bodrus really kills your swings and recovery rate, it is actually more efficitent to have little to none of it so that you can swing alot. A healer with no Bodrus and a shiny dagger can outswing and out-tag my 100 Bodrus and a dagger or quarterstaff almost every time.

Tagging nowadays is out of the question for me as anything I am going to get a kill on is something major, and I am needed for healing (to give an idea of where I stand - the last time I checked I slaughtered Grey Wyrms and most of the noids).

In the end, my advice is to get some Bodrus, but a limited amount. I recommend new healers get 50 or so - enough to pretty much brick vermine. Anything more is a waste as it doesnt help brick stuff, and you lose swings fast.

Cheers,
'red

[Konoko]

Everything else will be pleasant Library chats, which are indeed very pleasant, especially when offered some catnip brandy by Konoko!

Yummy in the tummy! :)

When you see me in my comfy chair in the library, just help yourself to some catnip brandy. I've got lots saved up!

Konoko

[Mehan]

In the beginning, I didn't train Bodrus like people told me to do.

After I passed third circle, I was sick and tired of being surrounded by vermine and FALLING! you would be too, after 40 ranks of Bodrus, I can brick LV and I've never been happier. I plan on getting the whole 100 after I finish my virgil training.

So it depends on who you are. As a rescue healer, I find being able to brick along wtih my 150 higgy priceless. I love it.

*shrugs* But that's just a Zo opinion.

[Althus]

Another 60 higgy will do more for your rescue ability than another 60 Bodrus, especially as you rescue more and more difficult places.

[Lex]

There are good healers with 100 bodrus and good healers with none at all. It helps you brick vermin and such, but respia helps you heal yourself after you get hit by the other 99.99% of creatures in CL that you will never brick.

As for rescues, bricking small junk helps, but faustus can help you raise the person faster, chaining can help you get them to a safe place, higgy can let you take a few more maha hits while a newer fighter who can't solo one kills it. It all depends what you enjoy doing.

Most healers like having extra respia so they can self-heal while healing and heal for a long time without stopping, but it's not required, although from what you hear in this forum you'd think it is. If you're the only healer on a hunt being respia-heavy certainly helps, but there are other things to consider. More faustus means you'll run out of spirit faster, but you've healed more damage in a shorter amount of time, and can afford to rest.

Mostly I'd say look at what you think you need more of and train it, but definitely include eva in your training because of the bonus.

Lex

[Sunblaze]

I don't recommend going with pure Eva rest of your first circle life, if you have a short attention span. Eva is slow by the fact it is percentage of the other first circle trainers and two of the second circle trainers. I would recommend grabbing some higgrus (to help keep from turning red or yellow while healing people and go with hunts with people so you don't get bored in town) and bodrus (enough to kill the large vermines that roam around) with few ranks of Skea to put money in your pocket for advance library fees to speed up your training to second circle. If you want to pass the test quick, going with higgrus/respia/faustus will do it. Higgrus will keep you up longer while respia will slow down the spirit drain that faustus likes to speed up.

10 ranks or more of pfing will help you get to places faster. Sespus is so-so trainer that people like or stay away from like a virus.

After passing the test, going with 50-100 ranks of horus will help make you useful.

Anyways, you should just feel it out and see what is best for you. Every one has a different way to train and this what makes CL unique in it's game play.

When I was training for second, I decided to get all the first circle trainers to 50 ranks. That's just me and I like the fact that I have enough spirit left over to heal up thanks to Sespus and Respia after I heal someone. :)

[Mehan]

And remember, you don't have to train anything you don't want to.

I have 10 ranks of horus, or so. Maybe 15 now, who knows. People bug me to train more, but you know, I don't want to, so I don't.

Just train what YOU feel comfortable training.

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Sunblaze
If you want to pass the test quick, going with higgrus/respia/faustus will do it. The fastest way to pass 2nd is to train Eva. That's what Thuja says and I tested it and I have to agree.

[Sunblaze]

I 100% disagree with you Drablak. Eva is the most unstable trainer of the first circle trainers. Eva stats end up being changed at times, so she isn't the most trustful of trainers. I've been hearing that she trains at 120% lately. Don't forget Eva adds some second healer trainers in her teaching which adds to her overall teachings. Going with 100% of Eva is a bad way to go for a quick pass of the test.

I got the higgrus/respia/faustus from Clan Hunters Newbie pages. Training with Higgrus and Faustus is the fastest way of passing the test (with respia to slow down the spirit drain, if needed.) Even Clan Hunters Newbie pages say that you have to be patient to work with Eva.

[Mehan]

Actually, Eva is what I'd say if you wanted to pass quickly : )

It's what I did. 200 eva got me through second and then some respia/higgy later, I was third :)

[Lex]

Originally posted by Drablak
The fastest way to pass 2nd is to train Eva. That's what Thuja says and I tested it and I have to agree.

Tested it? How? You would need several characters trained different ways, and then another 3-4 sets (at least) of similarly trained characters with different people clicking for them during the test.

Lex

[Steady Foot]

That must be similar to Evus. 200 Evus get you through the 2nd circle fighter test. My alter ego took that route.

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Lex

Tested it? How? You would need several characters trained different ways, and then another 3-4 sets (at least) of similarly trained characters with different people clicking for them during the test.

Lex What exactly are you asking for here Lex? Do you mean that each and every time you give any opinions about things you checked in the game you did as you described above? Give me a break! And you're completely wrong on the number of sets it would take. I said I tested it, I never said I made a scientific experiment to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Go play on the newsgroup please and let us have a discussion here.

I have 2 healers, one who trained mostly Eva and one who never trained Eva but instead trained separate trainers and the one training Eva passed with overall less ranks than the one never training Eva. And the one training Eva is 3rd now, and has been for some time, while my never-trained-Eva healer will most likely pass soon.

Does that prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt? No, of course not. Do you have a different opinion? Can you prove otherwise?

And I was answering Sunblaze, who is expressing his views from his perspective and I don't see you asking him where he got his info. He says things in a pretty 'absolute' kind of way and that seems ok with you.

Eva is unstable? Can you prove that? Who says Eva gets changed at time? HGM refuted that mixed trainers were tweaked each time people published their ratios. That may be true or not, but that's as good a source as the ones saying otherwise.
Going with 100% of Eva is a bad way to go for a quick pass of the test.
Beleive what you will, my experience differs. And whatever miss know-it-all thinks, I beleive I have more data than you on this one Sunblaze, at least one charater more than you is my guess.

Mostly I don't want other newbies thinking that Eva is a bad way to pass the test. There are other ways to train, and passing the test isn't the only goal one can have, so ultimately no way to train is bad. But someone saying training Eva is bad to pass the test is misinformation IMO.


Drablak

[Lex]

Sorry Drablak, I thought I was talking to an adult. Next time I'll just ask if you want a wowwy pop.

Lex

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Lex
Sorry Drablak, I thought I was talking to an adult. Next time I'll just ask if you want a wowwy pop.

Lex LOL, I never got that impression myself. [:D]

[Sunblaze]

Originally posted by Mehan
Actually, Eva is what I'd say if you wanted to pass quickly : )

It's what I did. 200 eva got me through second and then some respia/higgy later, I was third :)

Also, you're a Zo which adds some histia/higgrus on you at the start. :)

[Sunblaze]

For one thing, Drablak, I did ask around about the trainers like any good newbie should do to see what was best to train and I was told by a lot of people that Eva was 120% of all the first circle trainers and some of the second circle trainers. I heard accounts from people saying that Eva does get tweak from time to time like this page says: http://bor.clanlords.com/healer/eva.html And I did read some where about a tweak that messed up a couple people's ranks which was blamed on the mixed trainers which proves they do get tweaked at times.

I did passed the test with about 50 ranks each first circle trainer (Higgrus, Respia, Faustus, Sespus, and Eva.) I was close to having them all at 50 ranks when I passed. If you add up my Higgrus, Respia, Faustus, and Sespus ranks together when I passed, I should be under 200 ranks combined.

[Mehan]

Originally posted by Sunblaze


Also, you're a Zo which adds some histia/higgrus on you at the start. :)


Not enough that it would skew the results.

Lex where's my wowwy pop? :o

No bickering on these boards!

[Mehan]

Also, though Eva may get you through the circles more quickly. it will also leave you heavy on faustus, and light on respia, thus making you train later to balance those out.

I know a healer with an extroidinary amount of eva, who needs help when she's healing so she doesn't turn red. That doesn't make her a bad healer, it just makes it so she can't be the only healer on a hunt. It limits her possibilities.

It's your choice.


/action goes off in search of her wowwy pop. Grape, of course.

[Mehan]

Originally posted by Sunblaze
http://bor.clanlords.com/healer/eva.html

If you read that site, it sorta says that Bodrus and Evus are the same <g> I wouldn't trust that site, and neither should you : )

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Sunblaze
For one thing, Drablak, I did ask around about the trainers like any good newbie should do to see what was best to train and I was told by a lot of people that Eva was 120% of all the first circle trainers and some of the second circle trainers. I heard accounts from people saying that Eva does get tweak from time to time like this page says: http://bor.clanlords.com/healer/eva.html And I did read some where about a tweak that messed up a couple people's ranks which was blamed on the mixed trainers which proves they do get tweaked at times. I agree that Eva was tweaked in the past Sunblaze, but I would not say she is "unstable" as you put it. The web site you refer to has not been updated in a very long time.

I did passed the test with about 50 ranks each first circle trainer (Higgrus, Respia, Faustus, Sespus, and Eva.) I was close to having them all at 50 ranks when I passed. If you add up my Higgrus, Respia, Faustus, and Sespus ranks together when I passed, I should be under 200 ranks combined.
I am not contesting that you can pass the test without training only Eva. I am saying that it is wrong to say that "Going with 100% of Eva is a bad way to go for a quick pass of the test" that's all. Many have chosen that route and it works. Other have chosen other methods and they work too.

[Himitsu]

Another good site for figures (http://azriel.puddleby.info/trainers.html) is made by Azriel. Although his data isn't from last week, you can always verify what he has with your own information if so desired.

In my not so humble opinion, it certainly wouldn't hurt to train even a small bit with Eva because of the bonus you get and to correct any deficit you view in Eva's training yourself. For example, Eva doesn't train very much in Horus so you might want to get 200 Eva and then get into second and then train just Horus until you get to the value you like. Or maybe you want to be mostly Eva and train a bit of Respia on the side. Some have pointed out deficits in Eva's training but that doesn't make her bad just not perfect and there's nothing preventing you from training with others to correct what you view as problems.

Just think of it though, if you're a beginning healer and you train 200 Eva that's like getting 68 ranks for free. When you're new, 68 ranks makes a big difference so I wouldn't hesitate advising Eva training to a new healer because of that. Plus, it's a good way to introduce new exiles to the healing arts if they are uncertain of what to train. By the time they are ready to change trainers, they probably have a good idea of what they want to specialize in and training a bit with Eva won't ruin you for life.

Actually, upon reading what I wrote I realized I quite forgotten what the argument was. I just wanted to stick up for Eva's worth to healers. :confused:

[Anaeka]

I trained about 80 Eva before I just decided to up and quit. But that's just my humble opinion, I really don't like training something that'll increase my faustus that much. I'm trying to keep at least that 1:3 ratio (almost have it back to there) and Eva just would have simply killed that. So basically it depends on technique.

Want an easy way to pass 2c test? Train 100 body and kill all the enemies. 'nuff said.

[Konoko]

Opinion of a fighter who has a healer character buried away in the library:

I'm a fighter but I did start a healer character. I'm sure those who are healers love it, but it's not for me! I'm just not patient enough. And I hate being beaten on by everything. I'm assuming it's just because I don't use my healer much and therefore I'm not really used to being a healer, but I found being a healer boring! I don't know how people can use healers. I don't like it too much so I'll pretty much stick with using my fighter character!

It was kind of cool healing someone else for the first time and jumping to someone's rescue to heal them when fallen or falling. But I think I'd rather just kill things. I guess I just don't have the right mindset to be a healer. Perhaps part of it is just the whole thing with starting out with a new character. But I don't think I'd still have much interest in healing even if I had some more powerful healer. More power to all the exiles out there who are able and want to become healers!

Anyways, following my fighter heart, I got a bunch of higgrus to start. I didn't want to get any bodrus as I heard swings can be affected. I like the swings I have with my fighter and I'm used to that so I didn't want to play around with that stuff on my healer since I can't fix stuff with training regia :)

My healer passed 2nd with approx 70 or so higgrus (maybe a little more), 50 eva, and 50 respia. I think I had a few other healer ranks here and there (maybe 10 faustus, 5 spiritus). Right now I'm working on the slypha ring thing. I don't think I'll get much if any horus as I'd have to get everything worked out and balanced to heal people, etc. I make a bad healer... :)

Konoko

[Delirium]

I really don't like training something that'll increase my faustus that much. I'm trying to keep at least that 1:3 ratio (almost have it back to there) and Eva just would have simply killed that.

Er... Eva is less harmful to your desired fastus:Respia ratio than any other trainer.

I generally train so that my Eva and respia trainer messages match. Since Eva is about 1/3 fastus, this gives that 1:3 fastus:eva ratio. The one thing that throws this a little out of whack is that I also train spirtus, so I'm in the process of modifying my training so Eva+Spirtus ranks = respia ranks (trainer messages, not trained). I've also trained Horus, Higgrus, slyphstone ring, and a very small number of Awaria ranks directly (+ Bodrus, marsh hermit and a few other misc. ranks).

I'm still 2nd circle for some reason, even though that Zo by the door keeps telling me "Most who passed are pitifully weaker than you." I just don't see how weaker healers can kill the NWs.[;)]

[Anaeka]

Oh... well my mistake then Deli. Of course what I said was just based out of my little trainings with it, but of course I could have misjudged it. Maybe its just because I like more control over exactly what I train that I receive my trainings from individual trainers. Sorry for the confusion.

[Althus]

Unless you enjoy being pitifully weak in some aspect like Sespus (1 self heal pulse for 1% of your health!) for a small boost in other areas (59 second spirit regen, instead of 59.5 seconds!), you can still do all the fine tuning you want with Eva or Spirtus, and believe me, you will want those ranks eventually. Believe it or not, at some point the weaker monsters that we hunt will 1-hit anyone with "only" 400 higgrus.

[Coriakin]

Ha! Sespus is for the weak! I have, um, about 40 ranks with Sespus that I got fairly early on (i.e. over a year and a half ago). I haven't gotten any more, and I've never had any complaints. Anything that sespus could do, Respia does better. :)

I'm getting fairly close to the point where I can heal someone and still recover spirit fast enough to burst heal someone else fairly regularily. Respia is probably my #1 suggestion to aid healer survivability. It even counteracts having pathetic Proxi training!

Of course, you probably shouldn't trust me. I've trained about 10 ranks with Eva in my entire life, and I've untrained into alchemy a few times. Still... it was fun. :)