Mentus effects?

[Hrothgar]

I'm curious as to what people know of this mysterious trainer ;)
Could be a long thread so please speak your mind.

[Hidden]

It's a secret.

Shh.

No, seriously. If you want to find out what it does, train a little. Personally, I don't think it would effect you very much.

[Mjollnir]

The only definite effects of training Mentus (that i know of) is immunity to death poppies but i suspect that its the mystic equivalent of Spiritus providing some ranks in various boosting skills and some in the mystic equivalents of respia and sespos.

OOC
If the instruction manual is to be believed training mentus may allow other proffessions to use certain mystic items, the only ones that actually spring to mind would be the ethereal amulets. Or that could be like so many other parts of the manual, a nice idea but never gonna happen

[Archemar]

hello,

didn't high mentus help Rincewind locating you?

(what other mystic do locating? are you kidding?)

Archemar

[Simsu]

Originally posted by Mjollnir
OOC
If the instruction manual is to be believed training mentus may allow other proffessions to use certain mystic items, the only ones that actually spring to mind would be the ethereal amulets. Or that could be like so many other parts of the manual, a nice idea but never gonna happen

Many of the mystic items can be used by non mystics, skristals for example. Well maybe no many but some. I think I remeber the reason why J'jh trained so much sespus is because she wanted to be able to use a skristal.. I don't think any non mystic however has tried to train mentus to use mystic items.. I don't hear of many lib chars training it either.. heh.. Mentus is so bad people won't even use their extra lib chars to train it, just to find out what it could do.. heh.

Simsu

[Hidden]

Mjollnir pretty much nailed it in one shot. Mentus is the spirtus of mystics. For mystics, it improves their abilities in general, for nonmystics it increases the effects of mystic abilities on them.

[Hrothgar]

To toss my 2c in, I don't buy that explanation at all Hidden. Someone I know is mystic with a Mentus ledger and a few other low stats. Their boost is just as powerful as someone with the same number of trainings in boosting.

[Konoko]

Their boost is just as powerful as someone with the same number of trainings in boosting.

But what if the mystic was boosting someone with higher mentus?
Would the boost last longer if someone (i.e. a fighter) had mentus?

Or what if the mystic with all the mentus was boosted by someone. Would the boost last longer because the mystic being boosted has mentus?


The rodnus part of spiritus allows fighters to be healed faster by the healer so I suppose the healer's spirit is basically drained faster as the fighter is healed quicker. Something similar happens with mentus and mystics then?

Konoko

[Worf]

I had a library character who got a mentus ledger (Teller.) Even after he got the ledger, he kept training in it. For a long time.

I had a mystic wannabe character who had a skristal. He gave the skristal to Teller to try it.

It was pretty much useless. He could vaguely locate someone on the same snell, if he could actually see them.

So, don't bother training Mentus to use mystic items. In spite of HGMs bullshit that it can be done, it can't.

-- Worf

[Hidden]

Try having another mystic boost or locate him, Hroth. That's where it makes the difference.

[Ruen]

Based on my really limited experience (and watching the sparklies) I don't think that the mentus of the person being boosted makes a difference in the duration of the boost. When with a group of people who had varying degrees of Mentus, everyone seemed to lose the boost at the same time. I'll believe it effects the effectiveness of the boost, but that's much harder to measure.

[Finnias]

actually it wouldn't be that hard to test if you had 2 characters with equal swengus stats, but one had some mentus. Get a boost, go into the Fighter's Guild and count swings against the dummies with te same weapon. I would be interested in testing this sometime if someone had a library character they wouldn't mind either wasting some ranks on or cutting loose for a 1/2 hour or so.

[Himitsu]

Or maybe an exile/healer with just 100 Bodrus and no Hardia and no Mentus. I know that every bit of extra balance helps me out so maybe if there's someone here that matches this description, I'd be more than happy to do some testing. I have 100 Mentus myself so it'd be a comparison between the other person and myself.

[Ruen]

Ah, that's true you could do it with another exile who had 100 bodrus and no other combat training. The only catch is you'd need them to be a halfling too; swings vary widely depending on race. You'd need to use the same weapons too, but that's not hard to arrange.

It would be too complicated to do with fighters. Its not just a matter of equal swengus ranks, you'd need equal everything else, since just about all fighter training affects swings except for histia and detha.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Ruen
Ah, that's true you could do it with another exile who had 100 bodrus and no other combat training. The only catch is you'd need them to be a halfling too; swings vary widely depending on race. You'd need to use the same weapons too, but that's not hard to arrange.

Ah yes, I forgot about racial differences. I'll ask Samwise when he's out and about since I believe he just has the 100 Bodrus and nothing else since he's an exile. If anyone knows anyone who'd like to participate who has Mentus, please let us know.

It would be too complicated to do with fighters. Its not just a matter of equal swengus ranks, you'd need equal everything else, since just about all fighter training affects swings except for histia and detha.

Agreed, which is why I think exiles/healers are the better idea since fighters have too many trainers that alter their balance to be 100% certain that all of the variables are the same.

[Hrothgar]

I did a lil experimenting of my own.
Now have a relatively high 3rd C Zo fighter with about 200 mentus. Now before you all scream WASTER! Meh.
Things noticed so far
Duration of boosts recieved was not changed one bit, also strength of boosts recieved was also unaffected.
I did however notice an interesting variation when I was sharing with someone who had lots of skea <G>
Any other tests you would like to suggest?

[Himitsu]

I did however notice an interesting variation when I was sharing with someone who had lots of skea

What was the variation? :confused:

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Hrothgar
Now have a relatively high 3rd C Zo fighter with about 200 mentus.When you're done with the experiment, could you give me the extra mentus, I sure could use it. [:D]

[Hrothgar]

With watching the skinner (300 skea) my lil Zo's skea was vastly improved. Can't really tell by how much so I'l do lotsa experiments as to how this actually works.
However my theory is now changed to "Mentus helps you do something better when listening (Read sharing) with someone who does it MUCH better than you." I'l hopefully have a list of skills this is applicable for or an alteration in this theory should new evidence present it.

[Archemar]

Hello,

Originally posted by Hrothgar
I did however notice an interesting variation when I was sharing with someone who had lots of skea <G>


To put more coins in:

I have some Mentus (progressing well), Dentir (progressing well) and Skea (half way to hard to teach).
When hunting it seems to me that people sharing with me get some coins from either fur or mandibles despite having low or null dentir. Tho each fur give low value (2c bolok or 4c Maha), there are more.

A friend of mine is better pupil of both Skea and Dentir without any Mentus. When Hunting in noids he get more mandibles with higher price per mandible. And it seems other have less chance to dentist.

Archemar

[Ruen]

Hmm, that's interesting.

I certainly did notice that I skinned my best fur ever when shared with Aravir who has lots of skea. I think we both have 10 mentus.

I wonder if this would work with pathfinding. More to the point, I remember some people talking about an unopenable path recently. I'm wondering if you got together six full pathfinders who had all also trained a fair bit with Mentus and were cross-shared if they might have a better chance of opening that path. If that specifically hasn't been tried yet it might be worth a shot.

[Archemar]

hello,

Originally posted by Ruen
(...)
I wonder if this would work with pathfinding. More to the point, I remember some people talking about an unopenable path recently. I'm wondering if you got together six full pathfinders who had all also trained a fair bit with Mentus and were cross-shared if they might have a better chance of opening that path. If that specifically hasn't been tried yet it might be worth a shot.

Are you refering to Alchemist Foly ?

http://www.free-conversant.com/lundar/68/enclosure/staringinaf.gif

(see Lundar's Library (http://www.free-conversant.com/lundar/index/2002/11/02) for details)

Hepta, Lundar and Neige prolly have some mentus, so have I.

I dunno about Connie and Prue. Yet Kiriel was the only to see the path. (from memory 7 full pathfinder on this picture)

Archemar

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Archemar

Are you refering to Alchemist Foly ?


Yep, that's the one.


Hepta, Lundar and Neige prolly have some mentus, so have I.
...Yet Kiriel was the only to see the path. (from memory 7 full pathfinder on this picture)


I'm sure there are other factors that affect pathfinding. The fact that Kiriel can see the path and the others could not does not rule out the possiblity that mentus might be some help.

If you look at Lundar's sketch, you'll see that the mystics don't seem to be sharing with each other at all. You, Kiriel and Tonoto are sharing with Lundar. Were the three of you all also sharing with Hepta and Neige? If Kiriel was also sharing with Hepta and Neige, but you and Tononto weren't that would support the 'sharing with high mentus pathfinders helps' hypothesis. For the experiment I was proposing, if Lundar took the same picture it would show Kiriel, Tononto, Hepta, Neige, and Archemar all sharing him, and him sharing them all back.

Anyway, its just a theory, but since people do want to open this path I don't see how it oculd hurt to try unless that exacte experiment has already been done.

[Ruen]

Darn, I forgot to sign my name again... The previous post was from me.

[Archemar]

hello,

I must confess I do not remember who I was sharing with, prolly Kiriel, the two healer, prolly Hepta and Lundar.
anyway if I can get back to this place, I will prolly use a wider shuffling share strategy, and ask other to do it.

Archemar.

[Luminary]

Originally posted by Archemar
To put more coins in:

(snip)
Tho each fur give low value (2c bolok or 4c Maha), there are more.

A friend of mine is better pupil of both Skea and Dentir without any Mentus. When Hunting in noids he get more mandibles with higher price per mandible.


Not to take away any of your coins, but the 'price' of a fur or set of mandibles is determined when the creature is born, not when they are skinned (toothed?).

For example, if a newbie skinner skins a maha for 4c, then even Skea herself could not get more than 4c for skinning that same maha. However, Skea would be able to recover the 4c fur almost every time, while the newbie would probably fail as often as not.

Luminary

[Lundar]

Archemar wrote:

<I>"I dunno about Connie and Prue. Yet Kiriel was the only to see the path. (from memory 7 full pathfinder on this picture)"</I>

If I remember correctly, both Kiriel and Neige were able to see the path. Interesting idea about the shares though.

-Lundar

[Archemar]

Hello,

(in reply to Luminary)
That's a point, lemme think,
myself from past adventure in lands


ranks: 34, furs 10, 5 1 total :112c (22)
ranks: 46, furs 21, 8 3 total :101c (12)
ranks: 100, furs 13, 3 1 total : 44c (14)
ranks: 100, furs 18, 6 1 total :134c (20)
ranks: 100, furs 10, 2 1 total :124c (49)
ranks: 104, furs 11, 2 1 total : 45c (21)
ranks: 104, furs 23, 5 1 total :150c (28)
ranks: 118, furs 15, 2 1 total : 74c (25)
ranks: 121, furs 10, 2 1 total : 93c (34)
ranks: 123, furs 26,11 1 total :138c (12)
ranks: 30, mandibles 11, 5 1 total :221c (43)


figure are max,average,min, total and number. ranks, furs,mandibles self explain.
lines with max under 10 omited.
Mandibles score gathered during noids trips.

my friend

ranks: 43, mandibles 12, 6 4 total :115c (17)
ranks: 46, furs 12, 4 1 total : 84c (18)
ranks: 49, furs 9, 4 3 total : 69c (14)
ranks: 43, mandibles 13, 8 5 total :121c (15)
ranks: 55, furs 11, 3 1 total :117c (34)
ranks: 54, mandibles 11, 4 1 total : 77c (16)
ranks: 55, furs 13, 4 2 total : 62c (13)
ranks: 54, mandibles 18, 7 1 total :338c (48)


It looks to me as if max get higher when you skinning/dentist skill get higher.

If I recall the way skinning works as Gods Mighty (GM for short) put it, the higher you skill, the higher the chance of skinning and the higher the value (when applicable).

However, it seems that for some time now, there are more luck skin from people you are sharing with (54c from ruby with 0 Skea!, and countless 1 or 2c wendies/sas fur).

And to get back to initial topic, Mentus, from either side seems to be of help.

So if I hunt with you in the lands be sure to share with me!!! [:D] [:D] [:D]

/action try to dodge the flying pies

(grumble, no sense of humour!! grmblmmblnhglll! )

Archemar.

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Archemar
If I recall the way skinning works as Gods Mighty (GM for short) put it, the higher you skill, the higher the chance of skinning and the higher the value (when applicable).That would be: the higher the Skea, the higher the chance of successfuly skinning a higher-value fur. Not to be confused with higher skea means higher value. Of course, as your Skea training progresses, the maximum value of the fur you get will increase, simply because your chance of skinning those higher-value furs increases.

There is also always luck-skinning, as someone skinning a 29c fur with 0 Skea, but these are rare events.

I hope this clears any confusion.

[Hor]

Hello folks,

I find this here quite intesting - I am specializing in skea myself.

There is no doubt that a lot skea wont affect the value of
a fur. Only the chance to recover. This has been stated often
and I never noticed otherwise.

However, there is more the skea than one might see.
No idea about mentus, but it is certainly possible and
should be considered in detail.

I have the theory that skea is "contagious". This can often
be seen in groups where a lot combided skea is available -
someone random with almost no skea gets the bests skin.
Sure, this is pure luck, but it seems to be more common in
such groups.

Sometimes you hear..wow...I made the 97c skin, but I got
no skea. But that was always in some bigger group with
capable skinners. Again - could be coindicence, but I looked
out a long time for such things and there seems to be
such a thing as "group-skea"...

Just my 2 coins.. 8)

Regards,

Hor

[Luminary]

Originally posted by Archemar
It looks to me as if max get higher when you skinning/dentist skill get higher.

If I recall the way skinning works as Gods Mighty (GM for short) put it, the higher you skill, the higher the chance of skinning and the higher the value (when applicable).

Nope, the max value of a fur is the same regardless of who skins it:

Here's (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=HelpfulGM-33D6CD.18511109052001%40news.apple.com) the complete explanatiopn from HGM.

Luminary

[Mjollnir]

HGM said in that that the most recent 10 to hit it are the attackers, does that mean when the 11th person hits it they bump the 1st person off the list causing them to get no experience when the creature is killed?

[Hor]

> does that mean when the 11th person hits it they bump the 1st person off
> the list causing them to get no experience when the creature is killed?

Exactly.

Regards,

Hor

[Mjollnir]

thats a downer for large hunting groups

[Hidden]

The group CL is designed for is 10 fighters, 4 healers, and a Mystic. The largest feasible group is about 15 fighters (some miss tags on some things, but overall kill rate is high, so it doesn't matter), 8-10 healers, and 2 mystics.

[Delirium]

So Hidden, you are going to take DP with 10 fighters, 4 healers and a mystic?[;)]

[Konoko]

The group CL is designed for is 10 fighters, 4 healers, and a Mystic

Do these numbers come from somewhere or just based on say the 10 hit count limit thing and the 5 share max (i.e. fighter shares with the 4 healers and the mystic).
If the share limit was increased to say 6 or 7, would this group size then change to become more optimum based on the share limit?

Konoko

[Hidden]

I don't think that's far off, Delirium. Depending on the fighters and healers, that could be done now pretty easily. Of course, with average fighters and healers, it would probably take the second group I mentioned. It's really just a matter of coordination.

Konoko - I get the numbers primarily from the share limit. In a party larger than 10/4/1 there would be increasingly more complexity in share patterns, which I've discovered fighters don't like to think about. (Actually, I suppose it's not so much the patterns part as the "think" part that trips them up ;)

[Konoko]

which I've discovered fighters don't like to think about. (Actually, I suppose it's not so much the patterns part as the "think" part that trips them up ;)

Yes! thinking bad... :)


I have a hard enought time trying to keep up with all the cadding healers. The share-cads thing causes crashes and problems. I don't think it plays nice with my sewing macro.


Konoko

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Konoko
I have a hard enought time trying to keep up with all the cadding healers. The share-cads thing causes crashes and problems. I don't think it plays nice with my sewing macro.

One of the versions had some invisible characters so it caused some nasty crashes. This is the version I used on the ELF hunt and it had no problems. I added the message to let you know sharecads is working because I often have a problem with typing cadshares or sharecad and confirmation really helps me out.

"/sharecads"
{
message "

[Konoko]

Thanks Himi
I'll try it out

I'm thinking that since my sewing macro also does a looping thing checking for text log lines, it and sharecads conflict with each other.


I haven't really investigated it too much yet.
I really like me sewing macro. I'm quite produ of it actually. It's way huge but it gets the job done!
There's a lot of parsing going on in that macro of mine... :)

I'm not plannig to share it. At least not yet (or ever :) - I don't think it's 100% yet. But close!

BTW, I'm working on getting my sewing skills up to 50 so that should help a bit. Make sure to come see me at any clan meetings, etc (or whenever I'm around) for your tailoring needs!


/ponder it sure is nice to totally change topics in the middle of a thread! I think there are a few of these off-topic discussions going on in some of the threads.. :)

Konoko

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Konoko
I'm thinking that since my sewing macro also does a looping thing checking for text log lines, it and sharecads conflict with each other.

I haven't heard of only being able to have one text log searching macro at the same time. However, if there is a conflict then you could always not turn on the sewing macro automatically at login and instead turn it on manually. You can turn off all executing macros by holding control-esc and then turn on the other macro.

What sewing macro needs that much parsing? What does your macro do?


BTW, I'm working on getting my sewing skills up to 50 so that should help a bit. Make sure to come see me at any clan meetings, etc (or whenever I'm around) for your tailoring needs!

How much do you save off of the official tailor?

Not that I'd go to someone else besides a clan member if you were around. I'm just curious.


/ponder it sure is nice to totally change topics in the middle of a thread! I think there are a few of these off-topic discussions going on in some of the threads.. :)

Why stop a perfectly fine thread when it's still interesting? :confused:

[Konoko]

I haven't heard of only being able to have one text log searching macro at the same time. However, if there is a conflict then you could always not turn on the sewing macro automatically at login and instead turn it on manually.

yeah - I'll try something like that if the sharecads macro blows up again. Like you said, it might just be because i had gremlins (as bbedit calls them) in the macro.


What sewing macro needs that much parsing? What does your macro do?

The coolest sewing macro ever needs that much parsing... :)
I command-option-click on someone and all the details from the sewing kit get displayed as a narrate balloon. It doesn't matter what they're wearing - if the sewing kit checks it, then it gets reported on. One of the tricky parts was that races have different clothing (leggings vs pantaloons vs pants, etc).

I'm really happy with it and very proud of it - it was a bit of work (and lots of testing). It could probably be optimised but it runs fine and quick (well quick enough) so why bother!
There's one of my programming/coding mottos for ya... :)



How much do you save off of the official tailor?
I have no idea! But I think Kiri or someone was mentioning that 50 was a good plateau. Besides, then I'll get on the tailors list on the web scroll :)
I'll eventually get more but once I reach 50 (in a few days) I'll get something else...


Why stop a perfectly fine thread when it's still interesting?

LOL! I just got that now! sewing - thread... :)
We're a laugh riot!

Never stop an interesting thread!

Konoko

[Ruen]

Speaking of sharing cadders, I have a question about that. How important do people think it is to use the macro on a big hunt?

I know about the macro, but I haven't ever used it, nor have I gotten around to copying it. On the ELF/WoD hunt I just picked five people to share, some from each clan and stuck with them. I figured that given that I currently have all the Histia of a wet tissue that I couldn't cause to much damage doing that, especially when most of the healers we had along could heal me from half health to full before I noticed that I was being healed. On the other hand, I'm hoping a day may come when I am not the weakest member of the group and I'll have to worry more about these things. The hesitation that I have about the macro is that it ignores people who heal with moonstones, and mystics. If you /share /lock those people at the start of the hunt that might leave you with few open share slots, and then if three people start cadding you at the same time... well it just doesn't seem like a perfect solution.

[Delirium]

My oppinion on the matter (as a moonstone-using healer):

Use of sharecads is appropriate in mob hunts where everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off and nearly all the healers use cads. One problem with sharecads is that it encourages healers to try to heal those who are not sharing with them first, which encourages more aimless running around that is generally bad for strategy. I didn't do it on the joint WoD/ELF hunt, but I find that organizing large groups into squads where the fighters share all the healers and mystics in their squad works well. The healer then concentrate on healing the fighters in their squad and only heal others when their squad is at full health. This also means that the squad has to stick together and not scatter to the 4 corners of a snell (or 8 in the EP). [;)]

[Drablak]

About Sharecads:

I load it by default at log-on. I find it's good to have it most of the time. I do have a /sharecads /off macro to turn it off in some situations though.

As Deli said, it depends a lot on the group you're with, and her squad idea is actually one of the best way to do things. The thing to realise is that if you're organised in squads like she describes, having sharecads on is not a problem either since only healers you're sharing already will heal you most of the time, yet if it so happens a healer from another squad heals you (say your squad is all fallen and another squad comes to your rescue), then you automatically share with her, which can be a plus if your squad is in trouble and that healer is pounded by beasties.

In PTF, there are a couple of healers that do not use cads at all, so I usually share lock them and mystics and leave the other slots open for cadders.

Personally I never saw healers cadding just to get my share, but then my share isn't worth much [:)]

[Anaeka]

I've never shared someone just to get a share, hell I only like shares just so I don't get totally drained when I'm healing. Usually in big groups I like to quickly analyze the situation and heal people that are close by, or that need it the most/have the highest priority. Of course if I'm on a rod, that's completely different! [:)]

[Hidden]

Squads are a nice theory, but in any group disorganized/mobby enough to need them, nobody will remember who is in their squad, much less remember to stick with them, and half the people will ignore the order in the first place. As a moonstoner, I heal shared fighters who are standing out of the action first, followed by injured cadders, unshared fighters out of the action for 5 seconds (if, after 5s, they don't share, I move on), then finally other moonstoners.

[Sunoril]

Training. It's all training. Not training with whatever trainer you're training with, but practicing working together, not only in places like OC, but in less .. confusing places, too. Once you do it a time or six, it becomes 2nd nature. :-)

That said, I agree with Hidden. Most exiles are too independent (chaotic?) to do it well.

[Drablak]

I don't think anyone disagree that squads are unlikely things for spur of the moment groups and such, but for established groups that meet regularly they are quite doable. Regular groups do better than mobs/disorganised groups just by knowing each other, knowing usual tactics, who does what, etc. Squads are just a step further in such cases.

And for disorganised mobs, eventhough they're likely to break down (squads that is), they may put a little order for a little while, which isn't bad, considering [;)]

[Konoko]

eventhough they're likely to break down (squads that is)

For these established hunting/exploration groups that say get together once a week or whatever and use the "squad" idea, are some of the breakdown issues due to power struggles or disagreements so to what will be done next?

I guess I'm mostly referring to hunting/exploration groups that are "special" or by invite-only or whatever. I've read stuff where people mention so-and-so group is having troubles after exile x was admitted into the group.

Are the groups like this that actually work or do they all have problems with bickering, power struggles, personality conflicts, etc?

I would think the key to success is keeping the group small but then the group may not have the power to go to the more dangerous spots. I guess one has to balance the various advantages and disadvantages when trying to maintain a group's ability to meet its goals.

Konoko

[Sunoril]

Oh, I agree, Drablak. My experience is limited, of course, but from what I've seen, any group that hunts together regularly can easily learn to do the squad thing. An ad hoc group, particularly a large one, needs a strong leader to make anything work well.

Konoko, all I can say in answer to your questions is that I've never seen a group break down due to "internal politics" or personality conflicts. I'm sure I will some day, but not so far. :-) I've seen an FMOCR break down because (or so it seemed to me) people just started leaving in the middle of it, and once that flood gate opened, we didn't have the strength to get to the next snell (I think we got as far as OC2, but couldn't maintain a bridgehead in OC3). I think that was due more to people either getting frustrated, or needing to hit the library than anything else, though.

I've been on a lot of Open Hands clan hunts now, and we work very well together. We don't usually have a formal "squad" arrangement, but we do, particularly in places like the Tanglewood, make sure everybody has a "buddy" to keep an eye on, so that no one gets left behind or lost unknowingly.

In a very large group it is very hard for the leader to keep track of everybody, and what I know of military theory tells me the way to deal with that is to break things down so that he has fewer people to worry about directly - which is basically what squads are about, of course. Whether you can get any given gaggle of exiles to cooperate in that way is another question. :-)

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Konoko
For these established hunting/exploration groups that say get together once a week or whatever and use the "squad" idea, are some of the breakdown issues due to power struggles or disagreements so to what will be done next?Well, if you read carefully I was referring to breakdown only in case of the mob-type situations [:)]

But, yes, these happen in regular groups too, depending on many variables. I haven't seen power struggles myself (not that I have experience outside PTF though), as you put it, but more often conflict of personality, or even old grudges/dislikes. You try to avoid these when building the group, but sometimes the exiles involved can behave while in the group. What happens eventually though, is that on a particular day one or the other is more tired than usual and these conflicts re-appear.

Also, peoples' interests and focus change over time, so attitudes can change accordingly.

[Hidden]

I question the coordination of any experienced group that still needs something as artificial as "squads" to keep themselves in order. As Sunoril says, after practice the organization, knowing what everyone will do and how to react, becomes second nature.

BTW, Sunoril, if you could give me a date for that FMOCR I can probably look up what went wrong with it. I have an inkling I know which one it was though, and the one I'm thinking of was ruined because of a certain fighter's petty grudge against another fighter being taken too far.

[Delirium]

In FB, we have had disagreements, and even virtual shouting matches between members, but we have always managed to patch things up. Most of the disagreements were early in the groups history when we were working things out. We are a small, invitation-only group. Quite possibly, we are the smallest and least powerful hunting group with a name, and that is by design. We have never used squads in FB because we have never had enough in the group to form two squads. A typical FB turn-out is 2-3 fighters, 3-4 healers and a mystic. I think our members and regular guests right now include 4 fighters, 6 healers, and two mystics, but I can't remember a FB hunt with more than 10 exiles. An invitation to membership is extended only after an exile has bee a guest with the group many times and all current members vote to make the person a member. In other words, the growth in our group has been very slow and at our discression. When we have had conflicts, we have hunted in low-stress "fun" areas or just taken a break from the group meeting for a week or so. What has happened in those breaks is not people going off into their corners to stew, though. We have e-mail discussions to get to the bottom of the problem and solve it.

By the way, one of the ideas in the founding of FB was to have a group of exiles all at about the same level that would enable us to hunt and explore in "hard" areas without depending on exiles who were much stronger than us - no Gurgi's or Thuja's allowed in FB. As we have progressed, we have gone from a high 1st and 2nd circle group to a mostly 3rd and 4th circlce group (well, I'm still 2nd circle, but I think I'll be able to pass soon[;)] ). FB has been great fun for me. If there is are any 1st or second circle exiles out there who want a group, I would encourage you to go make one. FB started small- we got off the ground with only 3 of us and a commitment to form a group with a focus on tactics. When we started, we hunted SF and passes. Now we hunt Noth and HH.

[Sunoril]

Hidden, I'll have to take a look at my journal, but I think it was the one before this last one. I don't remember who all was involved, but I seem to remember Zorton was there (I could be mistaken). Dunno if he was the one going for the stone, or not.