Membership Application.

[Zorak]

1. Why do you want to join Winds of Dawn?
WoD is the clan that I see the most. I know a few of its members. WoD does a lot and they always seem to have fun while doing so.

2. In what ways do you enjoy helping new exiles?
I like to answer any of their questions. I know how it is. Older people look down on them. They mock them just because of their age. I want to educate them as much as possible so that they can become a functioning member of society and the newbie ridicule session lasts a short as possible.

3. What do you enjoy doing when you are out of the Library?
What I like to do most is explore. I like to see new places, figure out how to get there.
I do enjoy rescuing people.
I am really getting into the package delivery thing. That is fun (and profitable).

4. What do you not enjoy doing?
Dealing with people who only see stereotypes. I am not, nor will I be, the stereotypical healer. I chose a path of healing, but I also made it my own by learning to fight as well. There are many exiles who see the 3 paths and are convinced you cannot stray from them.

Thank you for allowing me to submit this application. If there is anything else I can to to help out the application process, please let me know.


Zorak

[Farhope]

Nice to read your applicatoin, Zorak.

As you insist on the "fun" part. I would like to point that, indeed, we don't see ourself as a powerful clan (we are not btw :-), just as a fun clan to be in. Fun but with a goal: to help and have attention to new exiles.

We don't hunt together regularly. It occurs very often that we are some members out the library but we are all in several groups hunting or even alone. We don't see ourself as having to hunt together... but you do sometimes and I don't remember a day I hunted with clanmates and was bored. :-)

OOC: we mostly like to play IC but we rarely frown upon OOC attitudes (in fact, in the clan, we are very different about "IC-strictness", I think).

[Kiriel]

Zorak, I think it's great that you have an interest in the clan! I do hope you will come to some of our events to get to know us better and of course to meet the event requirements for membership :)

One little thing you might want to think about- I noticed in the why you want to join WoD you don't mention helping new exiles as being part of the reason (it's not a requirement to say so but it's something I thought I'd comment on). Although the clan is very much about fun, our priority as a clan is first and foremost to help new exiles. From what you say in the next question it sounds like you are happy to help out new exiles but you should be sure before joining the clan that it's something that interests you enough that you would join a clan which has that as its primary goal.

I will be sure to invite you along to any impromptu clan events we happen to have!

[Konoko]

Thanks for your application Zorak!
See you around town...

Konoko

[Steady Foot]

Hi Zorak! Thanks for applying. You seem to be in the lands about the same time I am so that may be why some of the others have not seen you.

Most of the time I miss everyone. Hope to see you soon.

What places do you visit most often?

[Altir]

Thankye fer Applyin Zorak!

Ah seen ye much in da lands, hope ta see ye some more.

Oh! Ah should tell ye, we currently processin' anotha membah. We do one at ah time. yer next on da list! DING /yells NEXT!

Altir

[Delirium]

It was good to see you at our clan meeting and hunt, Zorak! I hope to see more of you.

-Delirium

[Zorak]

I write this in a state of frustration.

According to your Newbielymics qualifications, I am still a newbie, yet I feel the rules are different for me.

I will risk life and limb to save someone. I will not hesitate nor flinch. I don't care where it is or what perils lie ahead, I will give it my all to save the fallen.

Yet, in the past zodiac or so, I have fallen. When I am fallen, I am there for periods of 30 minutes (ooc) plus. People that I am sharing with, or that share with me ignore this. Usually they unshare me. The reason I am stating this here is because it was people in this clan that have done this.

I am sorry. I am not one to sit in town center. I am frustrated with those that I always see in TC and just SS for those that need rescues. For all the blood, sweat and tears I put into rescues, why can't they go to a rat tower for a save? Also, they can organize a massive rescue for some of the most horrible exiles in Puddleby, but not even put out an SS for me?

I have many ideas. I would like to hold classes for young healers. I would like to educate them on how to train. I would like to help them out with rescue techniques. I know I can do this without being part of the clan, and on an individual level, I have done this.

I am sorry I have not sat down to talk with anyone, or to go hunt with anyone. I am not the most talkative person. I hate sitting around, like I mentioned before. Also, I have not mastered typing and moving. And, when I think my frustration is about to subside, I fall, and lie there for a LONG time.

Say what you will, do what you want with this. For someone to put themeselves out there, like applicants for your clan, it is disheartening to get nothing in return.

Zorak

[Liolel]

Zorak I have the same problems sometimes. I can often get sunstones but no one will come and rescue me. If I've ingored you while you were fallen please tell me so I can work on changing my ways. I don't go on rescues much because no one shares with me when they fall and I'm just a fighter I can't do much to help even once the location is learned. But unless someone falls to a lyfe or some other beast that is usally encountred in a group I try to wait three minutes and if their not up sunstone. But about people sharing with you ingoring you consider this. A fallen message makes no sound and is easy to miss on a large hunt. On those same hunts people often need all 5 shares for people they are hunting with so they miss the message and later need the shares. That is what usally would happen with me if I was one of the ones which caused the problem. And if I was tell me, for these are things that need to be fixxed.

[Mehan]

Originally posted by Zorak
I am sorry. I am not one to sit in town center. I am frustrated with those that I always see in TC and just SS for those that need rescues. For all the blood, sweat and tears I put into rescues, why can't they go to a rat tower for a save? Also, they can organize a massive rescue for some of the most horrible exiles in Puddleby, but not even put out an SS for me?


That's a touchy subject there, Zorak. I sit in town when I have nowhere better to go. When a hunt ends or is beginning, I meet in town. When I have no rescue to go on, I sit in town. And sometimes, I just don't feel like rescuing. Now, I'm sorry if people like me are "frustrating" but I don't have to put out my "blood, swear and tears" like you do. That's your decision, and I'm glad somebody is doing it.

I don't see how somebody being "the most horrible exile in Puddleby" has anything to do with this. Kiriel may be the most horrible exile to Farhope, but to me she's an angel. So when I rescue her, and Farhope is fallen, wouldn't Farhope feel like I'm helping the wrong person?

Yes, falling sucks : ) We've all been there. Try falling on KI with no rescue coming for 4 OOC hours. You just have to toggle and wait.

[Altir]

Aye, mayhaps ye was frustrated bein' fallen while endevorin ta help others. Tisn't always easy. Did ye let folks know yer was comin ta help em? Usually if they's knowin yer comin, they usually will come back 'n git ye.

Me question fer ye: Did ye "toggle" those yer was shared with fer help? O' did ye just wait ta see if those ye shared with would notice? Unless ah am toggled, ah may not "notice" yer was fallen until many messages later. Ah sometimes shortsighted 'n if lots goin on about me ah will not "see" dat ye fell. Now, if ye toggled me. 'n ah not responded, than ah must hath been AFK. Otherwise, ah woulda responded o' somehow ah missed yer toggle which ah would n'er purposefully do.

O' course, it would help ta know whar ye was fallen? Yer sayin this happened often? How many folks was about? Sometimes, not often - but it happens - thar will be ah large hunt somewhar that folks there kin not respond from easily. Did folks know ye was fallen thar - i.e. they at least figured out whar ye was fallen? Ah guess ah wonderin 'bout da specifics... did ye hath ah mystic shared? They usually offer ta locate fer da share, specially those with da locatin skills.

Ah ne'er ss immediately if one needin help when they fall. Why? 'Cause, more often than not, they with ah party. Sometimes ah kin come ta 'elp- but if ah with ah hunt, ah will ss fer others ta go if possible. Ah always wait after at least 2 fallen messages. If ah helpin newbies hunt, tis hard ta go somewhere 'n rescue someone else without disruptin da hunt ah helpin with. Sometimes, ah out solo 'n ta make ah few coins 'n will certainly help if able ta.

Aye, ah been fallen fer ah time meself - ah suspect many hath - but n'er too long if ah toggle fer help - mayhaps just 5,15, o' 30mins+ o' 'n hour dependin whar ah took meself out ta. Often, ah knowin someone comin who ah let know ahead o'time whar ah would be 'n thar no need ta respond ta others (me friends o' clanmates often who check) who ss me ta check. They know if ah need help, ah will toggle back. /ponder at least ah hope they realize if ah need da help, ah will toggle!

Finally, perhaps this ah bit harsh - but ah feel ah should say it: if ye truly selfless about helpin others, yer should not be bitter about when yer needin da help from those yer helped. Otherwise, yer will be frustrated like ye are now.

Now, if ye gots ideas - speak up - them great idea already. Otherwise, they just yer ideas 'n we (or anyone?) will not be able ta help o' at least see what yer tryin ta do! If ye don't speak, we will not git ta know ye too well.

Also, as yerself noticed - da folks actively doin rescuin will often not be in TC... cause they out rescuin like yerself. So, mayhaps yer expectin much outta those in TC. Ah hardly ever in TC meself! If ah am, tis me visitin with someone ah hath not seen fer ah bit o' 'bout ta hunt with folks. Otherwise, mayhaps even afk fer ah few moments.

/action bows

Altir

[Kiriel]

Zorak, if you are ever fallen and need help and you toggle me, I will always do my best to get you a rescue. These days I spent a lot of time on larger hunts which I can't leave easily to go do rescues from, but even if I'm on a hunt I will do my best to locate where you are and get someone to come to your rescue. If I'm fallen I may not be able to do anything right away but as soon as I get up or encounter someone who is up to sunstone I will be sure to do what I can to help.

That being said, if you are fallen a long time and don't toggle me, I might not notice if I'm on one of those larger hunts. I often spend so much time just trying to keep myself alive that I don't notice fallen messages except if I get one when we're taking a break. But I never ignore a toggle. It's rare when I toggle others for help that I don't get a response either. These times you didn't get help- were you toggling for assistance? Also remember to toggle multiple people if you don't get a response because sometimes folks are fallen or afk or too foggy to respond. I usually try to toggle folks who know me better or who I know are good at locating fallens because most of the difficulty in getting a rescue is making sure folks know where you are. Even if that person can't come help, they can still figure out where you are and get the rescue moving in your direction.

[Konoko]

Zorak - pretty much what Kiri said goes for me except I'm hardly out and on hunts. I'm in the library... :)

But if I am out, then of course toggle me and I'll do my best to make sure help is on the way.
The same goes for anyone else out there too of course!

Konoko

[Altir]

Originally posted by Zorak
Also, I have not mastered typing and moving. And, when I think my frustration is about to subside, I fall, and lie there for a LONG time.

Ah was just thinkin... da number o' times ah hath fallen when tryin ta "think" or "talk" ta someone else.... instead o' keepin me axe movin' o' me boots runnin'....

.... /ponder ahs lost count! hard ta talk 'n drink beer at da same time too. Da most respected dorfs kin do it though! Ah still workin on dat.

Altir

[Lorikeet]

Say Zorak, speaking of talking and running at the same time, are you using click toggles or click and hold? When I first started, I used click and hold, but I had a lot of trouble talking and walking. I was afraid of getting hand cramps too, so I switched to click toggles. It took a couple days to get used to using them, but now I couldn't play without them.

[Steady Foot]

Well Mr. Zorak, I can understand how you feel. I have a few tips of the pratical nature that will drastically increase your chances of being rescued.

1) Become friends with and Share with a mistic and let them know where you are going. They can locate exiles and usually are helpful in getting people organized to rescue. Also, This becomes helpful to you in finding those who you are trying to rescue.

2) Share with the some friendly healers, regularly, that you know are on the same Island as you. Tell them also where you plan to go.

3) Once you become a member of WOD (if all goes well) share with clan members. If we are not in the area we will ask and ask until we know you have been rescued. A

4) Toggle me or others of WOD, if you need help. If I can't get to you, I will "bug" our follow exiles until others do. WOD is an equal oportunity helper clan. [:-)]

Many of us like to solo. In so doing there are many risks. One of them is falling where no one will rescue you or may be very hard to find or may be very difficult to get to. That is why I tell people (like my Mystic friends that are on) where I am going.
When we rescue, we can fall even more frequently.

Friends are what the Lands are all about. I have been rescued every time I have fallen, if I have asked (toggled) mostly because I have developed some very good friendships.

Your willingness to help others is a very good start!

Also, I have noticed a very quiet exile named Rivba. He apparently can't talk but He has been around a while (Lord Rivba). Toggle him also. He has been seen chaining people to healers in the Lands.
He is kind of wierd because he avoids healers like the plague but he takes many risks to get to fallens, like your self. I have heard he would rather depart then be healed.
Interesting!

[Steady Foot]

Zorak, usually, you and I are in the lands at the same time. Don't hesisitate to toggle or tell me where you are going!!!

[Ruen]

Zorak, you should share with Rincewind if he's about. He may well locate you before you finish hitting the ground. If not, a toggle is usually all it takes to get him to nagnagnag the healers over the sunstone until you are up. At least that's been my experience.

I'm never shy about toggling as soon as I fall. A fallen message is easy to miss. Very easy in fact, which is why I think about the feeling of having someone fall as if it were a hot pink message flashing across my eyes. I often toggle someone within minutes of falling, if not right away. Almost always that gets an immediate response.

[Blaise]

Just want to reiterate what others have said.... be sure to toggle!

Sprinting for my life, I may not notice the fallen message -- but generally toggling will penetrate my awareness. Especially if I'm in a position to not be able to help (I'm on another island, for example) I'll take a toggle as a sign that I need to start checking on the sunstone network.

If I don't respond to a toggle, there's something going on with me that may require a rescue in itself.

If I fall in a place that I think is going to be too hazardous to recover me from, I generally will depart. Otherwise I balance how long I'm willing to wait against the penalties of departing.

I hear your complaint, and I will try to increase my awareness. I do put a lot of effort into "being there", so I'm saddened when that's not adequate to the need.

Blaise

[Zorak]

I am sorry I caused such a ruckus. I apologize for that. I just needed to get this off my chest.








I guess, in a weird way...




nevermind

[Catlin]

That is very frustrating, and I'm sure it's happened to everyone. It certainly has to me (I would submit a somewhat amusing sketch here, but I'm not sure how to do it). What is even more frustrating is when you sunstone your location before you fall, just to find out that nobody heard you!! Toggling is a little annoying when you stated "nwf" or whatever plain as day. I try to give the benefit of the doubt; perhaps they were afk or in the middle of a big hunt (or some particularly good gossip in TC :P). The one thing I find works almost unfailingly is sharing a mystic!! Rincewind and Phiros of this clan have been particularly helpful.

Also, this goes for Zorak or anyone else, don't hesitate to toggle me if you need help. I'm just a doofy fighter, and I may not always be available, but I will sunstone tirelessly for you in the hopes that someone, somewhere may be listening. My clan, the Evergreen Cricle, is also dedicated to rescues, even if we sometimes need someone to rescue the rescuers... ;)

Yours in milk,

Catlin Fr'ry

[Himitsu]

I've often noticed that people don't pay attention to their sunstones, not on purpose but because they're busy doing other things, so even if you say where you are often times it's not noticed. So I agree that toggling is a very good thing.

Aravir often tells me when he leaves to go somewhere before he falls so I can let people know where to go to save him. You might do this yourself if you're going on a rescue.

I always wait until the second fallen message "X is still fallen to Y" before asking if they need help. I figure that they are with people so if they are still fallen in a few minutes they might need help. So if people don't ask for you right away after you've fallen, they are probably waiting for the second or third fallen message.

I can't locate so if you share me and expect to be located right away, know that I'm pretty much useless in this regard. Ghoti, Rincewind, Phiros, Valtrim, Callia, Salandra, and Malkor are excellent locators so sharing with one of them will get a rescue quickly.

Also remember, being patient will be a good thing. I agree that 30 OOC minutes is too long but if you follow some of the tips that we have given I think you'll decrease that time significantly.

Remember, toggling isn't bothering it's just a gentle reminder that you need help. I don't think anyone here would be insulted if you toggle them and will be more than happy to help you or anyone out.

[Kiriel]

Originally posted by Catlin
That is very frustrating, and I'm sure it's happened to everyone. It certainly has to me (I would submit a somewhat amusing sketch here, but I'm not sure how to do it). What is even more frustrating is when you sunstone your location before you fall, just to find out that nobody heard you!! Toggling is a little annoying when you stated "nwf" or whatever plain as day. I try to give the benefit of the doubt; perhaps they were afk or in the middle of a big hunt (or some particularly good gossip in TC :P). The one thing I find works almost unfailingly is sharing a mystic!! Rincewind and Phiros of this clan have been particularly helpful.

One tip regarding sunstoning location before falling- I find it is almost always more effective to sunstone your location to a single individual you are sharing than to general sunstone. If you sunstone to everyone nobody is really paying close attention, but if you sunstone to one person they are far more likely to notice the message and even if they're busy they can sunstone on your behalf to get a rescue moving.

I usually keep a pretty good eye on sunstone messages except when I'm on a big hunt and things are getting sticky (mainly on KI) and if someone asks about the location of someone else and I heard them sunstone recently I will try to reiterate their location at the very least.

[Konoko]

I know some people frown upon this, but sinstone (i.e. ICQ) may also be something to try after you've exhausted your IC methods.

Usually the locators do a great job but if they're not on or if I'm somewhere strange or something, I will once in a while use ICQ to send a quick message stating what's up...

[Hidden]

A very wise man (ok, Gurgi... shush!) once told me:

"A general sunstone gets general silence."

Basically, if you want to know something, or want other people to know something, sunstone individually. It also reduces wear. The public sunstone channel is basically only useful for joining ongoing discussions or making general nonvital announcements.

Also, a tip to all those non-multitaskers out there: If you haven't been listening to your sunstone and want to know something, open up your text log and hit Cmd-N to search it. It helps. A LOT. Not only will you get the info faster, you'll avoid looking like a total moron!

[Hrothgar]

Well sad to say the more people you broadly appeal to for help, the less likely you are to recieve assistance. For EMS training OC I was taught that if you need someone's help (Carying a Patient Etc.) you pick an individual out of the crowd and you give them specific instructions. I've found this method works great on CL too ;) After all Personality isn't much different IC and OC.

[Dandelion]

Hi Zorak!

Some folx have already written a lot of good suggestions for getting rescued. My list (likely no better or worse than anyone's) looks like this:

1) Share with mystics in my party.

2) Share with locating mystics.

3) Pay attention to the SS and see who's running rescues and share with one of them.

4) If I am surrounded, or think I'm going to fall, and can manage to, I try to SS one of the good folx I have shared or send out a generall SS, depending whether or not I'm currently involved in some silly SS banter and a comment will be likely to be noticed, whether or not someone has just passed a circle test, and how clearly I'm thinking!

5) Toggle someone I'm shared with soon after falling
(In the vast majority of cases, you are NOT bothering the person you are toggling. If that person seems bothered by it, ask them, once up and safe. If s/he was bothered by it, choose someone else to share instead.)

6) If no response in a couple of minutes, toggle again.

7) If no response in a couple more minutes, toggle the next one on the list.

8) If found before the toggled rescue gets there, ask them to let the toggle-rescuers know right away.

Originally posted by Zorak (snipped throughout)
I write this in a state of frustration.

According to your Newbielymics qualifications, I am still a newbie, yet I feel the rules are different for me.

I will risk life and limb to save someone. I will not hesitate nor flinch. I don't care where it is or what perils lie ahead, I will give it my all to save the fallen.

Also, they can organize a massive rescue for some of the most horrible exiles in Puddleby, but not even put out an SS for me?


Lying fallen for a long time can be very frustrating!

That being said, there are no rules when it comes to rescue. Newer exiles are not rescued before seasoned veterans, nor vice versa. Dedicated rescuers are not rescued before soloers or those on hunts, nor vice versa. Pillars of the community are not rescued before Puddleby's Most Reviled, nor vice versa.

Expecting folx to be rescued more quickly based on their newness or virtue or your perception of their value to the community will lead only to disappointment. I don't mean to sound harsh, really. It's just that there are so many reasons and combinations of reasons for what happens when, and it is so easy to see patterns where there likely aren't any.

Generally, though ... if someone knows you are in trouble and knows you are not being helped yet, they will make sure you get looked after.

Originally posted by Zorak
Usually they unshare me.


This will happen. If someone is shared with you in hopes that you will rescue them if they fall, and you've been fallen a while, the chances of your being able to help are rather slim. Also, f you have not toggled this person and heard back from them, you cannot be sure they know you've fallen. It could be that they've not noticed and just shared someone who's healed them in passing, knocking you off the list.

Originally posted by Zorak
Also, I have not mastered typing and moving.


This takes some getting used to. I used to always go cross-eyed, trying to look at the SS, and fall. Once you get used to it, click-toggles really is much better for this than click-and-hold.

Dandelion,
hoping you find less frustration and more reward!

[Delirium]

I simply hate sitting about town, so if I'm in town (and not AFK) and I hear that someone has fallen, I'm on it, whether or not the person is sharing me. However, like other members of WoD, I also go on long hunts, some to hard areas that require all my attention. If I'm on such a hunt, I will try to toggle locate any fallens in the lulls in the action, but if there are no lulls, I can't do that.

If I notice someone is fallen the first thing I do is glance at my text log. I've seen so many cases where someone SS's "I'm falling at <place>" and two minutes later another exile SS's asking if anyone knows where that someone fell. If I see that the fallen exile managed to SS their location or I see that another exile has asked about the fallen, what I do depends on whether I'm on a hunt. If I am, and the fallen has not toggled me, I assume that someone else is helping the fallen, and I simply keep an eye on the fallen's status. If the fallen remains fallen for a while and I haven't seen in SS's, I'll start asking if people are helping and/or toggle locating as the lulls permit. If I am toggled, I start trying to get the exile help as soon as I am able, provided I notice the toggle. Several times, things have been busy, and I've glanced back at my text log to dicover someone toggled me 5 minutes ago. I will respond to toggles if I notice them, although it may take a little while if I have my hands full. If I don't respond to a toggle, you are welcome to toggle me again. I agree with Dandelion that exiles who are truely upset by being toggled are not the ones you want to share with.

[Zorak]

I appreciate the comments a lot of you have left.

I feel something was lost in my initial post on the subject. As I said, I wrote it in frustration.

I do everything to help myself when fallen. I know all the techniques, strategies, etc.. What I was trying to get at is that members of this clan have unshared me as I have fallen. I have not gotten any ss's about if I need help, or anything like that. I have not seen any general ss's asking if I have help.

There are people outside the clan that do the same thing.

To me, this action makes me feel that I am not wanted. It takes a lot for me to say this.

Oh well, it had to be said

[Wheatstone]

I appreciate your being straight forward - no sense in beating around the bush. I have to say I think you're jumping the gun a bit, though, when you interpret being unshared by a clan member as not being wanted. There's lots of reasons for unsharing people. I frequently rotate shares, and am also running a cad-share macro so I may not even realize when I've unshared someone. As it happens, I'm also pretty useless for a rescue without a fighter to back me up. I always feel bad when I see a clan member go down because I know if *they* fell, then I likely wouldn't stand a chance. Though my knowledge of the lands around puddleby is pretty spotty, I'm always happy to try to help try to locate and look for any fallen, though, especially a friend or clanmate. I generally don't try to locate folks, but only because there are always better folks than me around to do it.

If you're curious, I'll share a couple of my own frustrated-falling stories. Once I was part of a group that just couldn't seem to stay together... and so we all kept constantly falling. That was bad enough, believe me. But... when we'd finally gotten most folks up, I was attempting to toggle-locate one of the few that we hadn't found yet. I had a general idea of where they were, so I was wandering around calling for them. But then they suddenly stopped responding to my questions (of course it took me a while to realize that tehse weren't 'no' answers). Despite running from animals and trying to find my friend, I noticed a SS message a little while later pointing out their exact location. When I arrived, though, they just complained that there had been a previous SS message that I'd missed (being distracted by the monsters, and my own attempts at location).

I've also had folks actually locate me, but then forget about me. I sit there for a while thinking that a rescue is on the way... and finally toggle some more. I don't think anyone means anything by it, folks just get distracted. The thing that makes it difficult for me is that I hate "bothering" people to come and rescue me. On the other hand, it's been explained to me that rescues are a big business in Puddleby. Many exiles only come out of the library to go on rescues, and I know how much I enjoy being able to help a fallen (on those occassions when I actually can help). So I try to tell myself I'm not really bothering people. :)

If you still feel like you're not wanted, I can only say this:
I don't know you very well myself (though I certainly hope to get to know you better) ... However, as far as I can remember, I have never heard anyone say anything bad about you. If folks really didn't want you around, they'd probably say something to that effect behind your back, but I haven't heard even a murmur of it. I have heard, however, a whole of good things about you. So I really wouldn't worry too much. Everyone gets frustrated falling sometimes, and it sounds like you're a much more dedicated rescuer than most folks... that sort means that when you fall, there will only be less-dedicated rescuers to save you. :-/

As an aside, I'm sorry I haven't been out of the library much lately... but I really would like to go hunting with you sometime to get to know you a bit better.


Regards,
Wheatstone

[tomair]

Hoi,

Well erh hmm lots has been said.. Zorak, always presume the best in everybody. If you feel lost and lonely ask the person(s) who abandoned you ( like unshare, ignoring ect) about their motives...and act accordingly. Personally i do not know you that well but i presume you're a nice person..:)

greetings,
Tomair, you friendly healer

[Altir]

Originally posted by Zorak
I appreciate the comments a lot of you have left.

I feel something was lost in my initial post on the subject. As I said, I wrote it in frustration.

I do everything to help myself when fallen. I know all the techniques, strategies, etc.. What I was trying to get at is that members of this clan have unshared me as I have fallen. I have not gotten any ss's about if I need help, or anything like that. I have not seen any general ss's asking if I have help.

There are people outside the clan that do the same thing.

To me, this action makes me feel that I am not wanted. It takes a lot for me to say this.

Oh well, it had to be said

Zorak, considerin yer message 'n all da explainations below ah need ta know if yer still want us ta continue considerin ye fer membahship. We done our best ta reply.

Ah think yer got us wonderin what da heck happened. Yer bein somewhat general 'n yer still feelin frustrated despite all da words from many, WoD membahs 'n non-WoD membahs alike in explaination. Yer initial post about bein frustrated 'n yer recent one sounds da same. Even after all da explainations, etc. If it da problem with one membah, please talk to da membah ta clear it up. Ah sure it simple matter!

If yer know da techniques 'n strategies, ah sure ye kin understand what sometimes happens. If yer was togglin' ah clan membah 'n they ignored ye, perhaps thar somethin ta be said if they wasn't AFK.

Many o' us conceed we coulda unshared yer fer various reasons, but without specifics we don't know when o' how. Ah don't think membahs would unshare ye 'cause we was goin outta our way ta ignore ye while yer was fallen.

So, good sir, please update yer intentions to da clan so we kin move ahead with yer application or more on to da next one. Ah feel strongly dat yer will want ta address this b'fore we continue.

Thankye!

/action bows

Altir

[Zorak]

I do not think that I am in a position to start naming names. I am wanting to get in your clan. What good would it do me to start waving accusations about? If I have no proof, their word would be taken over mine.

I could talk about how some of the officers in this group are the ones that unshared me. I could talk about how a healer in this group chastized a newbie because he did not share her (instead of teaching him about sharing a healer).

Like I said before, I am sorry for stirring up all the hassle that I have. I think it would be best that I withdraw my application.

[Ruen]

Umm, I may be a little slow Zorak, but it seems to me that if you're withdrawing your membership application you are in a position to name names. Even if you weren't at this point I think it might be the best thing for you to do.

Sorry for piping up unasked, but I'm also currently trying to join a clan (I'm a hopeful for ELF), so the situation of being under consideration is pretty immediate for me too. Seems to me that if you actually want to join WoD you are doing the worst possible thing right now. You've made an accusation that has made the clan feel badly, but it looks like the situation that caused it could just have been an unlucky coincidence. People have pointed this out in an effort to make you feel better an help avoid a repeat, and you've basically come back and said that it wasn't like that without giving any details to back it up. From where I sit on the sidelines it looks like what you've done is come and said "some of your clanmates have done unkind things and made me feel unwelcome," and you haven't given them any details that would let them address the situation. What were you expecting them to do? If I were to do something similar to ELF I expect that at best the clan would collectively shrug, and rightly so.

I know you probably didn't intend this Zorak, but think about the position you've put people in. You've made an accusation, but you're withholding the details in such a way that the clan and the individuals involved can neither defend themselves nor attempt to fix the situation. Leaving the situation as it is will likely cause more hurt feelings than filling in the details and naming names. Often in a conflict like this its the stuff that goes unsaid that causes the most trouble. Please consider at least filling in the details without names so that people figure this thing out and move on.

[Nunul]

Originally posted by Zorak
If I have no proof, their word would be taken over mine.

You should get to know us a lil better if you feel this way. You'd be surprised at how open (most of us) we are to critisism.

Originally posted by Zorak
I could talk about how a healer in this group chastized a newbie because he did not share her (instead of teaching him about sharing a healer).

Sometimes our screening processes are not 100%.
You sound serious about your commitment to helping others.
Perhaps we all need a refresher on the backbone of the clan.

\action once again reviews his own commitments

-bacon

[Phelps]

Originally posted by Kiriel
I usually keep a pretty good eye on sunstone messages except when I'm on a big hunt and things are getting sticky (mainly on KI) and if someone asks about the location of someone else and I heard them sunstone recently I will try to reiterate their location at the very least. IIRC (It has been a while since I clanned) I am pretty sure that you can click into your text window and use Apple-F to search for a string. I use this to see if someone else is looking for a fallen, or if they said anything that tells me where they are (or might) be.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Zorak
I do not think that I am in a position to start naming names. I am wanting to get in your clan. What good would it do me to start waving accusations about? If I have no proof, their word would be taken over mine.

I can only speak for myself when I say this is absolutely untrue. While I do hold the word of WoD members very highly, I will not believe what they say and ignore what a non-member says just because the non-member is a non-member.

If you're withdrawing your application because of what a WoD member did or said then you should say exactly what happened so we can do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again. We really can take criticism without going ballistic.

I could talk about how some of the officers in this group are the ones that unshared me. I could talk about how a healer in this group chastized a newbie because he did not share her (instead of teaching him about sharing a healer).

Did the healer say "please share" or "why don't you share with me you newbie!?!" The former isn't so bad while the latter is insulting. What happened exactly?

I admit to feeling a bit peeved when a healer asked for a share before I learned why sharing was needed and before I found the wonders of Sharecads and learned that unsharing someone when you're getting healed isn't an insult.

Like I said before, I am sorry for stirring up all the hassle that I have. I think it would be best that I withdraw my application.

It would be nice if you could say some names and specific actions. I agree with what Ruen says completely. How can we get better as a clan and as people if we don't know what we did wrong?

[Delirium]

Zorak -

You say you don't want to name names, but you say "she" "healer" and "officer" - there are three clan members which fit all 3 of these, and I'm one of them. If you have a critisism of me, I want to hear it, whether or not you withdraw your application. If I have offended you somehow, I want to know how so I can try to avoid the same mistake in the future. Right now, You have indicated that there is one (or more?) of three people you don't think is a nice person, and all three of us are scratching our heads trying to figure out just what we did that upset you. We can't do anything to make it right or resolve any misunderstandings if you don't name names and get specific. Ruen's words are very astute.

-Delirium

[Poesy]

Well... Um... Hm.
I rather agree with Ruen... But I also understand that now this whole thingy's gotten blown up and perhaps over discused from our side that ye dinna want ta go attatchin names to it. But then you went and added more vauge details to it, sayin what ya 'could' say ifn ya'd a mind. So I'm confused about yer true intentions.

Originaly posted by Zorak
What good would it do me to start waving accusations about?
I'm afraid th' problem is y've already started waven them aboot, but in such a way as there's not a thing any of us can do ta get them resolved, which makes us vehra unhappy...

What I would really like ta hear, if ye do not (understandably) want ta name names and get hackles up, is that you have at least talked personally with the people y've had these issues with, and gotten 'em resolved. Untill y've done this I don't see how you could be happy joinin, or how th' clan could be comfortable with ye. Personally aftah makin these acusations I think you at least owe us this much, even if ya no longer want ta join th' clan, it's not polite ta make half an accusation, ye gots ta give us a fair shake.

I was meanin to talk with ya last night after our hunt, but ya ran off through a path without th' rest of us on th' way back. I was wishin ya hadn't left so sudden like, although I kin understand runnin from Twith 'n' Catlin's vocal lovin [:o].

I'd a hoped that Wheatstone 'n' I comin ta rescue ye as soon as we got out o' th' lib 'n' saws ye was fallen woulda showed ye we dinna hate thee.

--Poesy, who's not even a clan membah yet, boot hopes ta be tomarrah, and feels she's been ramblin again.

[Mehan]

Originally posted by Delirium
Zorak -

You say you don't want to name names, but you say "she" "healer" and "officer" - there are three clan members which fit all 3 of these, and I'm one of them. If you have a critisism of me, I want to hear it, whether or not you withdraw your application. If I have offended you somehow, I want to know how so I can try to avoid the same mistake in the future. Right now, You have indicated that there is one (or more?) of three people you don't think is a nice person, and all three of us are scratching our heads trying to figure out just what we did that upset you. We can't do anything to make it right or resolve any misunderstandings if you don't name names and get specific. Ruen's words are very astute.

-Delirium


As the other female healer officer, I'm pretty sure he's talking about me, considering how rude he was to me in the lands recently. *shrugs* But I could be wrong, he could just be ignoring me for the fun of it.

Now, I don't know what you're going on about if it is me, because I don't remember any such instance. I would never EVER be rude to a newbie in grey. EVER. So it must have been somebody in tan, and I would never EVER ask for a share rudely. My routine is "Spare share?" pause pause "spare share?" pause pause Mehan heals and leaves. How that is CHASTIZING somebody, I'll never know.

And people unshare. People unshare me all the time, and I don't go haywire over it, assuming they don't like me. Today I TRIED to work things out with you in an attempt to find out what was bugging you, and in response you logged off after ignoring my repeated SS's. I tried.

[Poesy]

You know, I'd like to say something cheery about y'all, in many groups if someone came forward with vauge as to person accusations like this people might tend to say things like 'oh it was probably so and so, they're real grouchy', or 'it's probably all those new people we're letting in who just don't _understand_'. Accusations like these can make you start to wonder about the other people in the group, and make things very unhappy. But everyone here has said was it me? Please tell me if it was me cause I didn't mean to and I'd like to straighten it out. Go y'all! Yay Windy Stuff!

-Poesy

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Zorak
I do not think that I am in a position to start naming names. I am wanting to get in your clan. What good would it do me to start waving accusations about? If I have no proof, their word would be taken over mine.

I could talk about how some of the officers in this group are the ones that unshared me. I could talk about how a healer in this group chastized a newbie because he did not share her (instead of teaching him about sharing a healer).

Like I said before, I am sorry for stirring up all the hassle that I have. I think it would be best that I withdraw my application.

Zorak,

Ah believe we (both member 'n non-member who posted) hath, in good faith, attempted ta try ta answer yer frustration here, in da forum 'n also some clanmates hath tried ta talk ta ye 'bout this in da lands. Unfortunately da timin be bad or ye hath not decided to respond in da lands to me clanmates.

It would be honorable ta resolve this directly with da parties involved, o' course. Yer gots frustration about it since yer sayin enuf that we knows thar ah problem; however, yer won't give us da opportunity ta apologize fer somethin' we still don't know we did. Ye kin only gain our respect if ye allow us to do so.

Thar many ways to handle this fer ah positive outcome: If ye don't feel ye kin tell directly here (in da forum)- ye sure kin tell in person. O' mayhaps if ye gots ah friend, mayhaps they kin serve as 'n envoy fer yer frustration as ah go between if yer not up ta talkin directly with da exile. Ah VERY sure this problem with unsharin ye is ah honest misinterpretation as many here hath said. Mayhaps thar some in our clan ye feel ye kin confide in so that this could be worked out.

Until then, ah accept'in yer withdrawal fer application 'n ah kin only hope we kin meet in good terms in da future. Our best wishes to ye in yer endevours 'n yer rescuin! We will help if at all possible. If ye need help, toggle!

/action bows

Altir
WoD Membahship Coordinator

[Altir]

ooopah! Ah takin to long ta write dat last time. Twas me!

Altir

[Zorak]

I have explained all to one of your members. It is up to them to share.

Take care, and be well.