Clan Hall

[Mehan]

I've always wanted to see houses in Clan Lord. Oh, sure, not everybody would get one. Maybe they would be expensive? (but not TOO expensive?) and then you could implement the garden as part of the house! (it would cost money too, of course ;o)

I know that a house would be very nice, at least for one of my characters. Perhaps there could be builders to do it for you? But then you get the whole "furniture" room decorations, blah! I don't know. I just have always wanted that feature in game.

Just suggesting.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Drablak
I understand individual houses coud be too much to ask for but I think one thing that should be considered are clan houses.

I think that's a great idea and gives clans great benefits as well as tying the members closer together.

As to where the clan houses should go, there are many empty places both close to and far away from Puddleby. The East Fields could be used and we wouldn't even have to chop down the trees to get enough empty space.

[Lilly]

One of the things that initially attracted me to play Clan Lord, was the Castle Alliance, a clan-based building that folk could use and enjoy. It didnt need to offer any special advantages like clan-specialized trainers or items, it was just an appealing idea to have a place where *I* belonged. I know the clan I was in that had a vested interest in that project, spent alot of time discussing and donating to make it get built, and the progress of it all after more then 2 years, was something I found quite disappointing.

I bring this up because when I heard the idea of gardening, the first thing that popped into my mind was "That would be just the type of thing to go into a clan-based building". I see others have also had the thought as well, and I'd be mighty impressed if it were to be put into action. Even if it was a row of carbon-copied buildings based on the rentable clan building, it would be a start.

[Mjollnir]

Originally posted by Himitsu


As to where the clan houses should go, there are many empty places both close to and far away from Puddleby. The East Fields could be used and we wouldn't even have to chop down the trees to get enough empty space.

There are also a number of half finished buildings in puddleby that could easily (for a builder) be torn down and that land could be used to build houses.


on Gardening

Gardening sounds like fun and it would provide something to do if you only had a short time to clan, something you could do for 15 minutes before heading back into the lib.

But what sort of gardening? would we be able to grow anything that you could find naturally? just baking ingredients?
Would we be able to grow alchemy ingredients too? mushrooms for spores, togron nuts, uli flowers?

The only big problem i see is the rarer ingredients, like cacao pods, would they be able to grow in puddlebies climate? and yeast (is that grown or produced) unless they could be grown aswell then their will be too much of 1 set of ingredients and not enough of another until everybodies pack is full of pretzil boxes.

On Alchemy

Id like to see the alchemy shop expanded, not just with more potions but with a new way of making them.
Id like to be able to make them while out hunting rather than only in the actual lab

The idea is that the alchemy lab would sell some generic "potion ingredinents" to you which by /using them would allow you to make potions away from tha lab, provided you are carrying all the ingredients you need, your alchemy bowl and the potion ingredients.
Possably after completeing a course with a trainer on how to brew away from the alchemy lab

On other Professions
I love the idea of being a blacksmith or weapons smith

[Dani Diuberr]

Houses? Furniture? Maybe even, a patio and a barbeque, perhaps? Hey, we could charbroil deer steak!

Sorry, but isnt that The Sims?

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Dani Diuberr
Houses? Furniture? Maybe even, a patio and a barbeque, perhaps? Hey, we could charbroil deer steak!

Sorry, but isnt that The Sims?

I've never played The Sims but I'd like to be able to interact more with the world than just running around hoping I'll get lucky and find ingredients for baked goods and beer. I'd like to be able to grow those ingredients as well as making the seasons mean more than they do now (obviously plants can't grow in the Autumn and Winter).

I like the clan houses and giving the gardening roles to clans because the game is called Clan Lord and benefits should be given to clans. Right now there are very few advantages to being in a clan which is why I think so many people are not in clans.

Besides, are you going to tell me you wouldn't like decorating a Winds of Dawn clan house or having your own room and having a clan storage? It'd be neat!

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Mjollnir
Yes id imagine thats true, there are dozens of clans in CL and always more springing up, obviously you couldnt just assign a building to them and say meet here this is your place, we'd soon be over run and puddleby would take up half the island, having builders and big builders (ie need lots of material) would keep all but the most serious from getting them

Why would all of the clans be required to have their houses in one centralized area? What if a clan wants to have their house on Fire Island or Kizmia's Island or by the lake way past the East Forest? I think if a clan wants to hire a builder and donate materials to make a big house in what others might think is an odd place, why not let them? Puddleby has no such concept as zoning so why introduce it now?

[Mjollnir]

too true i didnt consider that

[Poesy]

Originally posted by Himitsu:
Puddleby has no such concept as zoning so why introduce it now?
We don't? Building permits but no zoning? That is a gap that must be filled! [:D] I bet it just takes 200 PF to find the zoning NPC, so you've never met him. [:D] Once we have exiles with 200 PF who can actually get into the building department we'll be able to get buliding permits a lot faster (Ahem, I've got this axe here, got my building permit ready yet?) and Puddleby will grow by leaps and bounds! Clan houses! Gardens! Towers of Babel! Whee!

--Poesy

[Valtrim]

Originally posted by Himitsu

Why would all of the clans be required to have their houses in one centralized area? What if a clan wants to have their house on Fire Island or Kizmia's Island or by the lake way past the East Forest? I think if a clan wants to hire a builder and donate materials to make a big house in what others might think is an odd place, why not let them? Puddleby has no such concept as zoning so why introduce it now?

Agreed. As long as a clan can maintain a building in harsher environments (by spending coins & materials, and perhaps keeping monsters off of it), I would see no reason not to treat all areas equally with regard to building.

I always wonder how much of the difficulty with player characters building things lies in design and how much lies in code. There are a few design issues that I can see with semi-permanent structures (I believe that decay of some sort would be mandatory), such as people using buildings to block off passages. Then again, if a bunch of people decide to build <B>and maintain</B> a fort within some dangerous area for purposes of easier hunting, more power to them, IMO. I'm guessing that there'd be more concern with a clan trying to make a toll booth on the East Field bridge or something similar as it'd violate the "no PvP without consent" principle a bit too flagrantly. Beyond that, if Joe doesn't think it'd be fun to build and maintain a structure of any sort, it probably won't fly.

Until we can build our own structures (heh), perhaps we could get another clan hut built? I hear people say that no one uses it, but I see bids on it regularly. Do people actually pay those bids, or are there always some sons of bitches just bidding the thing up for the sake of doing so?

HWC for Valtrim

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Valtrim
I always wonder how much of the difficulty with player characters building things lies in design and how much lies in code. There are a few design issues that I can see with semi-permanent structures (I believe that decay of some sort would be mandatory), such as people using buildings to block off passages. Then again, if a bunch of people decide to build <B>and maintain</B> a fort within some dangerous area for purposes of easier hunting, more power to them, IMO. I'm guessing that there'd be more concern with a clan trying to make a toll booth on the East Field bridge or something similar as it'd violate the "no PvP without consent" principle a bit too flagrantly. Beyond that, if Joe doesn't think it'd be fun to build and maintain a structure of any sort, it probably won't fly.

I think that clan houses should be prevented from areas that could be considered common areas accessible to everyone. In addition to your example, a clan house shouldn't be built right near the south gate so no one could use that gate and they'd have to go around. Everywhere else should be ok for building.

Until we can build our own structures (heh), perhaps we could get another clan hut built? I hear people say that no one uses it, but I see bids on it regularly. Do people actually pay those bids, or are there always some sons of bitches just bidding the thing up for the sake of doing so?

I don't really know but I think that if a clan doesn't pay their bid before the time runs out then the clan house accepts bids again.

I think a better yardstick to measure if the clan house is being used is to see if the clan house belongs to anyone and how much they paid for it. If the clan house is only being auctioned off and no one is actually paying what they have bid then people are bidding just to increase the price.

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Himitsu
I think that clan houses should be prevented from areas that could be considered common areas accessible to everyone. In addition to your example, a clan house shouldn't be built right near the south gate so no one could use that gate and they'd have to go around. Everywhere else should be ok for building.

So basically what you're saying, Himitsu, is that the GMs should go over the ENTIRE WORLD with a fine-toothed comb for areas that can and can't support clan huts? Sounds like a bad idea to me. It would also slow down the rate of addition of new areas, since everything like this prompts an additional check on every single area that gets added. Too many special features and it becomes unmanageable, and additions slow from a crawl to a near-halt.

Originally posted by Poesy
But I don't even know if Clan Lord can change the appearence of areas dynamically... I can't think of any areas in the game that do anything like that now... but I haven't been around all that long.

That's not a problem. For examples of how this works, check the Sacred Grove and the Casino. Both (I think) use this. All that would be needed is a base garden image with several plots of land, and various crops in different states of growth that can be superimposed. The strain on the server would be fairly low.

Originally posted by Mjollnir
New items like spades, forks, hoes etc for getting the garden ready for planting in the first place, seeds for growing the crops, different types of soil and fertilizers.(think of whatthet'll do to our already limited pack space)
New items are trivial to add. Thinking up MEANINGFUL new items is what keeps things nice and slow. Also, these things wouldn't necessarily have to take up pack space. You could have a 'fertilizer bag'.

As far as library-gardeners -- it wouldn't work if the system was set up the way Kiri and I outlined. There wouldn't necessarily even have to be a gardening trainer. Just a buttload of quests to do various things. Speaking of buttloads of quests -- who said it would be easy to grow orgaberries? What if you had to bring back a few orga corpses of various types to get the right soil combination? I'd imagine going to grab a few dreadlocks wouldn't exactly make it an extremely profitable task, since you'd have to split it AT LEAST 5 ways.

[Lundar]

On clan houses...

I personally think that clan houses would be a GREAT addition to Clan Lord that would totally increase CL's fun and addictiveness. Clan Lord is touted as a "graphical MUD", and in MUDs one of the strongest draws is being able to amass "quest points" which players can use towards the building and expanding of their clan houses. Having clan houses in Clan Lord would give clanned players a fun and challenging long term project that they could work on and contribute to, and would add a whole new level of gameplay to CL. It would also give players something to do on a daily basis, searching for building materials to expand their clan's structures.

Of course the implementation of clan houses would be tricky. My suggestion would be to create a "Clan Row"(similar to the Frat Rows at many colleges) which would be a new snell to the north or south of Puddleby. Clan houses would have a steep startup cost(in terms of money/materials), as well as a maintenance cost once it's built. Clans that wanted to start a clan house would have to have a minimum of at least 15-30 members to limit the number of clan houses and to prevent exiles from owning their own houses.

Players would also be able to expand and add to their clan houses once they're built. Additions could include such things as altars, meeting rooms, libraries, storage facilities, bedrooms, and custom artwork. Of course each of these things would have a steep cost to build, and add to the maintenance cost of the building. This would probably be the most difficult thing to do, implementation wise, but I feel the population of CL is small enough that a single GM could handle all the requests and additions to clan houses, perhaps with the aid of several helpers.

So in conclusion, I believe that clan houses would make a fantastic addition to the Clan Lord world. It would give players a fun and exciting project that they could work on, and finally give clanned players something other than italicized names. It would definately put the "Clan" back in Clan Lord.

-Lundar

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Hidden
So basically what you're saying, Himitsu, is that the GMs should go over the ENTIRE WORLD with a fine-toothed comb for areas that can and can't support clan huts? Sounds like a bad idea to me. It would also slow down the rate of addition of new areas, since everything like this prompts an additional check on every single area that gets added. Too many special features and it becomes unmanageable, and additions slow from a crawl to a near-halt.

I'm not saying that at all.

I figure that when a clan wants to build a clan house they have to pick a location and get a builder to collect the building materials. When the clan picks the location the GM can decide whether that's a good location or not and they'd only really evaluate the area for whether it's too small to support the house or whether it would it would prevent exiles from getting around the house.

For example, a clan wants to build a house just to the east of the Scout and requests a builder. A GM looks at the location and comes to the conclusion that a house there would prevent exiles from using a common path to the South Forest and would deny the request. However, the clan could build the house elsewhere in the same snell. Alternatively, a clan might want to put a house too close to a currently existing path and since that'd obstruct travel that would also be denied.

I don't want GMs to think about whether each snell would be house friendly when they are making them. I think that it might be forseeable at some point to pay someone to chop down trees where you want your house to be and give them to the builder. The trees would only be cut down when enough building materials had been given (adjusted for the amount of trees) to prevent trees being cut down and then a clan not going through with the house. I don't know if this idea is a good one but I rather like it.

I hope I'm making myself clear.

[Valtrim]

Originally posted by Himitsu

I figure that when a clan wants to build a clan house they have to pick a location and get a builder to collect the building materials. When the clan picks the location the GM can decide whether that's a good location or not and they'd only really evaluate the area for whether it's too small to support the house or whether it would it would prevent exiles from getting around the house.

I doubt that any system which requires active GM support will be implemented. What happens if Clan Hut GM has to leave CL for a few months? IMO, the entire point of trying to come up with a system for clan huts (and many other things) is so that GMs, the vast majority of the time, won't have to intercede in any way. Barring custom artwork, which would require a GM's attention, Lundar's suggestion seems the most workable, to me. Of course, it'd mean that there wouldn't be any clan huts in the wild, which I'd like to see. It'd be a pain, but perhaps a sn'ell in each of a few areas could be singled out for building?

Oh, and so as to remain slightly on-topic, one should be able to add a garden to a clan house, as well. ;)

HWC for Valtrim

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Valtrim

Of course, it'd mean that there wouldn't be any clan huts in the wild, which I'd like to see. It'd be a pain, but perhaps a sn'ell in each of a few areas could be singled out for building?


Turn Lundar's clan hall row idea inside out. Instead of "GMs create potential clan hall plots in clan hall snell", have the GMs scatter the same number of potential clan hall plots throughout the world at preselected, GM approved locations. Only allow clan halls to be erected at these spots, after extensive (and expensive) refurbishment.

Give them the appearance of old ruined towers, underground halls with smashed-in doors, whatever. Put a signpost outside identifying it; exiles can hire a builder in the clan hut, using the name on the signpost to identify the plot. Let the clan change the name on the sign. If allowed to fall into disrepair, clan halls eventually return to their original, ruined (and available) state; the name on the sign can be used by the next clan that wants to refurbish it.

The number of plots would be as high or low as the GM's like, but should be smaller than the number of clans that want such a plot, to promote inter-clan rivalry for the prestige of claiming a clan hall. There should be a way for a clan to take a rival clan's hall and make it their own; inter-clan PvP, perhaps.

If a hall in any particular location proves problematic, the GM's can easily contrive some IC reason to destroy it; incentive for clans to not let their halls become problems.

(Clan Halls sounds better than Clan Huts.)

-jrr

[Opxe]

jrr wrote:
Give them the appearance of old ruined towers, underground halls with smashed-in doors, whatever. Put a signpost outside identifying it; exiles can hire a builder in the clan hut, using the name on the signpost to identify the plot. Let the clan change the name on the sign. If allowed to fall into disrepair, clan halls eventually return to their original, ruined (and available) state; the name on the sign can be used by the next clan that wants to refurbish it.

That does sound feasible. It doesn't seem as if it would require much snell redesign.

[Bob the Archer]

[

The number of plots would be as high or low as the GM's like, but should be smaller than the number of clans that want such a plot, to promote inter-clan rivalry for the prestige of claiming a clan hall. There should be a way for a clan to take a rival clan's hall and make it their own; inter-clan PvP, perhaps.


-jrr

No, let the number of ruined halls be greater than the number of active clans with enough potential members to refurbish one, but let the number in desirable location be fewer.

So there might only be one in town, and the npc there will only deal with a clan that has top Dun'silar standing. And since it takes a while to refurbish the hall, the clan must maintain that standing throughout the refurbishment, or forfit their investment.

NPC's in charge of refurbishing might demand other things than wood or stone as well, and the more desirable the location, the harder those things might be- a complete set of rocks, 100 feathers for the seat pads, metal for ... A sort of quest to finish the hall.
And of course, the clan will have to continue to contribute regularly or the permit will expire for lack of progress.

A hall should be unatainable unless there are at least 10 exiles actively helping contribute to it.

I recommend a permit NPC in town and a npc at each site to take contributions. No coins for contributions, but still experience.

[Poesy]

I agree that there should be more than enough houses for everyone... The different halls will be more or less desirable, but any clan that is willing to work should be able to achieve one.

I don't think the halls should be tied to the Dunislar, and I don't see how they could be... unless a GM were to watch the standings.

I also think a clan should have to gather a certain amound of building materials before they are able to claim a hall, to prove their resolve, and to make hall selection more merit based than a land rush. If all the halls were in really hard places, that would also prove resolve etc, but I would rather have a clan hall in a more pleasant place...

--Poesy

[Opxe]

Does anyone mind if a create a new thread for the clan hall discussion?

[Kiriel]

Done. Unfortunately some posts covered both topics so it'll be a bit confusing.

[Callia]

Originally posted by Unregistered


The number of plots would be as high or low as the GM's like, but should be smaller than the number of clans that want such a plot, to promote inter-clan rivalry for the prestige of claiming a clan hall. There should be a way for a clan to take a rival clan's hall and make it their own; inter-clan PvP, perhaps.

If a hall in any particular location proves problematic, the GM's can easily contrive some IC reason to destroy it; incentive for clans to not let their halls become problems.

(Clan Halls sounds better than Clan Huts.)

-jrr

I prefer this, or Lundar's idea regarding a Clan hall row. Both limit the locations where these places might occur. The idea of the game being gradually filled up with buildings doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. The idea of a Clan hall seems like a good one, but keep the locations discrete.

Regarding Lundar's idea of a Clan Row, I point out that HGM's is always telling us that snell edges don't actually match up exactly. He's told us that there's usually a little hand waving involved. "And you leave the farms, and walk down this alley for 5 minutes.. and you come out in this field" That leaves plenty of room for a few small snells scattered around between the farms and town.

Regarding JRR's idea of a limited number of such places, I also strongly favor this. Many of the resources in CL are limited by some feature or other. This one should be too. Many of the most fun parts of the game involve the stuggle and choice over limited resources. For instance, you might have the money for an Orga berry, or a Lila, but not both, which do you want? Or.. do you go on an adventure to obtain more resources (coins)? Choice, and limited options are elements which make the game more interesting.


Callia

[Mehan]

Hooo, look, I started a discussion!! Go Zo!

Do I get a biscuit?

[Altir]

/action hands Mehan ah beer.

Altir

[Mehan]

That isn't a biscuit.

Grrrr.

[Bob the Archer]

Altair, if you cant tell the difrence between a bikkie and a brew, Im going to have to take your brewing licence away before we all end up poisioned.

/ponder Where is that home fore senility?

[Altir]

/ponder can't imagine why anyone would want ah biscuit instead o' ah beer. Ya would think she be ah halfling wantin ah biscuit.

/action takes back the beer and shrugs.

Okie!

/action looks at Bob da Archer.

Altair? Who dat? /ponders no respect from dem youngsters! Humph!

/action hands Bob da Archer ah beer and goes off to go push yet another fallen to da town.

/action then realizes what Bob just said... Poisoned! /action looks stunned. Eh!!!! /action studders and stomps his feet. Me?! Poison with me beer?!? Okie, dat does it. No beer fer ye! /action takes the beer away from Bob da Archer.

/ponder best not put "poison" in da younger hands!

/action drinks down his "poison"

BEER!

Altir

[Altir]

Humph.

Altir

[Steady Foot]

Give them the appearance of old ruined towers, underground halls with smashed-in doors, whatever. Put a signpost outside identifying it; exiles can hire a builder in the clan hut, using the name on the signpost to identify the plot. Let the clan change the name on the sign. If allowed to fall into disrepair, clan halls eventually return to their original, ruined (and available) state; the name on the sign can be used by the next clan that wants to refurbish it.

I just kind of scanned through this thread.

I find the idea of clan halls spread throught the lands looking like old ruined towers, etc. very interesting. That would be a lot fun to have a "clan hall" out and about rather then in town snells.

It gets my vote![:)]