Champions...

[Konoko]

Hi

Any words on the Champion fighter subclass?
I understand you need to have a certain level of fighter abilities and a number of ranks in the fell blade.

Any idea how many ranks of fell?
And how much fighting ability?


Any champions yet?

[Konoko]

I did some digging on the newsgroup and found a little info. Sorry if you all know this - I don't follow the newsgroup much so it's news to me!

The following all come from the "CL: fighter subclass names" thread.
Posted by Joe Williams
(Torin) wrote:
> Apart from wielding a fell blade, this third subclass will have what kind of skills?
Warlords/Fellbladers are the "pure" fighter class, designed for group combat. Their skills will largely be about fighting and killing
monsters.

They aren't backstabbers, but group fighters.

Posted by Ann GM
Roughly speaking, one subclass prefers mostly to hunt alone or in very small teams, and will have skills and tools designed for that. I like Ranger for them.

One subclass likes to hunt in and lead larger groups, and will have skills and tools designed for that. I like Huntleader, since it
describes exactly what they're about.

The third does unnerving things I'm not going to say too much about. My favorite name for them is Bloodmage.

All three subclasses will have abilities that look a lot like magic to
those who aren't trained in them. Are they magic, or just exceptional skill? Well, do mystics pierce illusions using magic, or special training? Just what is "magic" anyway? Probably it's all a little of each, talent and training and thaumaturgy combined.

Ann


Posted by Joe Williams
It looks like they'll [Bloodmagi] come third, after Champions and Rangers.


So Champions (fell-bladers) first (whivh is the current version), followed by Rangers (gossamer), and then the bloodbladers.


Any guesses or ideas or thoughts as to what should be some of the special abilities for each of these subclasses?


I'm not sure what they have in mind. And I'm not sure which sub-class route I'll follow. I guess it depends on what special trainings/abilities will be offered. But I'm guessing I might lean more towards the gossamer path.

What about the other 3rd circlers out there? Which path do you think you'll follow? Or will you just stay non-subclassed?

Konoko

[Steady Foot]

Thanks for posting all the info. Found it very interesting. I have not heard any of it. Of course I don't skim all the news groups either.[:)]

Thanks for the update![:)]

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Konoko
And how much fighting ability?
I'd assume about 1000-1200 ranks. My fighter, who is mid-high third circle qualifies overall, but doesn't have enough fellblade ranks (which is fine, since he's going to be a Ranger).

[Konoko]

I qualify for fighting ability but don't have enough fell blade ranks either (i have 40-45 or so). I would think the fighting ability would have to be over and above what you have by the time you get 3rd circle or else why even have a limit if third circle is enough.

So perhaps in and around mid-third circle then...


If anyone hears anything on how many fell ranks are needed, let me know. I'm guessing it would be around the same number for each subclass' weapon.
Lerri - you've got 100+ with the fell. What does the person say to you?

Konoko

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Konoko
I qualify for fighting ability but don't have enough fell blade ranks either (i have 40-45 or so). I would think the fighting ability would have to be over and above what you have by the time you get 3rd circle or else why even have a limit if third circle is enough.
Because different people need different numbers of ranks to pass 3rd. Some training paths are vastly more efficient at test-taking than others.
If anyone hears anything on how many fell ranks are needed, let me know. I'm guessing it would be around the same number for each subclass' weapon.
I'm guessing the number is 550, since all the training messages from the weapons point to the achievement of 'mastery' at around that point, but it could be less.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Hidden
I'm guessing the number is 550, since all the training messages from the weapons point to the achievement of 'mastery' at around that point, but it could be less.

In Clan Lord Weekly, Joe said that we'd be seeing a Champion in the next two weeks. Do you think there's someone with so many ranks in Fell Blading?

I hope it's not that much because that would mean only a very small percentage of fighters would ever be a subclass. Unless that's what Joe wants the subclasses to be.

[Tulkas]

The number of Fell Blade ranks needed are somewhere between 66 and 98. Silky does not have enough with 66 and I can qualify with 98.

There is, however, a quest to complete before actually becoming a Champion. The first part was easy, but the second part involves finding something called an Earthstone. I am searching for one whenever I am in the lands.

It is likely that the number of ranks needed to become a Ranger or Bloodmage would be the same as for Champion.

Tulkas

[Konoko]

Tulkas posted:
The number of Fell Blade ranks needed are somewhere between 66 and 98

I was guessing around 100. I'm really curious as to what the other special trainers are. I'm looking forward to that and the other sub-classes!

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Tulkas
The number of Fell Blade ranks needed are somewhere between 66 and 98. Silky does not have enough with 66 and I can qualify with 98.

That's rather pathetic. I could cough out that many ranks.

And here I thought promoting to a subclass would actually require some dedication:mad:

[Konoko]

Hidden posted:
promoting to a subclass would actually require some dedication
Well that's just the start of getting accepted into the sub-class.
Who knows what else will be expected?
And the training required for the trainers specific to this sub-class. But I guess you were thinking a little higher.

So Hidden - you were thinking that 550 or whatever would be enough just to get into the sub-class? And then whatever more ranks would be needed to train with the trainers within that sub-class? Say an additional 550 just to become say at a ledger level for one of the trainers within the subclass?

That's a lot of ranks :)

Konoko

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Hidden
That's rather pathetic. I could cough out that many ranks.

And here I thought promoting to a subclass would actually require some dedication:mad:

As Konoko said, 100 ranks is just to get the title of Champion and, probably, Ranger and Bloodmage as well. Once you're in, you might have a second circle in which you need more Fell Blade ranks to get access to the room and hence the even more advanced trainers and/or items. Or perhaps you just have one room and each of the npcs have different Fell Blade ranks needed to get the training and/or items.

All I know is that you need to get an Earthstone before being accepted as a Champion and I don't know if anyone has done that yet. Once they do, I'll pester them for information. [:)]

P.S. I wish Mystics had nifty things too. Maybe that's too much to ask. :rolleyes:

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Himitsu
P.S. I wish Mystics had nifty things too. Maybe that's too much to ask. :rolleyes:

Mystics have more skills than either of the other classes, and more items than both of them put together. You're hardly in a position to complain :)

[Luminary]

Originally posted by Hidden
Mystics have more skills than either of the other classes, and more items than both of them put together.

I say the class-specific item count is close between all three classes...

Fighters: 3,4,5,6th circle belts, 3 3rd circle weapons, at least one misc, 3rd circle/subclass thingie... 8+ items

You could also classify all the weapons in Witkus' hut as fighter items, since he will only sell to fighters...

Healers: 2 pants, 2 shirts, merc, cad, sylph ring, pendant...8 items.

Mystics: Who knows for sure? I can only think of 11, but there's probably a couple more. The other "mystic" items are available to everyone, it's just that mystics tend to carry theirs around more.

The bottom line is that it would be more interesting, possibly even more fun for everyone involved, if all classes, mystics included, had more skills to play with, and more class-specific items.

I think just having subclasses available, even if it only takes a token number of ranks to specialize, will add a great deal to the game. I would place the real "cost" of joining one subclass in the fact that you will cut yourself off from the other subclass' skills. The 100 ranks to specialize gives you enough time to really consider your decision.

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Hidden
Mystics have more skills than either of the other classes, and more items than both of them put together. You're hardly in a position to complain :)

I said nifty skills not number of skills.

I know Mystics have a lot of skills and I'm definitely looking forward to the Illusion breaking skill when I get promoted to Full Mystic but the downside is that dabbling in all of the skills would mean we won't be really good in any of them. In the case of Mystics, having sub-classes would provide us with a much needed boost to the skills we want to focus on as well as hopefully making them more useful.

[Mjollnir]

Originally posted by Luminary



The bottom line is that it would be more interesting, possibly even more fun for everyone involved, if all classes, mystics included, had more skills to play with, and more class-specific items.


The Champion subclass gets some very fun looking skills and items to play with as anybody who saw Arena Master in action can attest.

(for those of you who didnt see him there is a very long visionstone of him showing off some of his skills on movies.puddleby.info)

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Mjollnir
The Champion subclass gets some very fun looking skills and items to play with as anybody who saw Arena Master in action can attest.

Thanks so much for the visionstone and it was really interesting, especially about the new abilities of the Atkite stone. Considering Rangers are alone and won't need boosts, Champions have their Atkite stone, and Bloodbladers have their Atkus in the blade itself, I can now safely not train in boosting in the future. Makes me glad I only sunk 150 ranks into the skill.

I'll definitely keep my eye open for Arena Master. Thanks again for the visionstone. [:)]

[Brune]

I'd love to see the Arena Master movie, but I'm having trouble accessing it (the URL can not be found). Could it be posted to the Winds of Dawn visionstone page?

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Brune
I'd love to see the Arena Master movie, but I'm having trouble accessing it (the URL can not be found). Could it be posted to the Winds of Dawn visionstone page?

http://movies.puddleby.info works for me. Right now the visionstone is the first in the list.

[Mjollnir]

posted by Brune
I'd love to see the Arena Master movie, but I'm having trouble accessing it (the URL can not be found). Could it be posted to the Winds of Dawn visionstone page?

Sorry i should have provided a link in my first post movies.puddleby.info doesnt have a www prefix its just http://movies.puddleby.info, if that link doesnt work ill send the visionstone to Kiri for posting on the visionstones page

[Konoko]

yes - thanks for the visionstone Mjollnir!
I started playing it this morning so I could just get the text log. When I glanced at it before leaving for work I saw that that you were in the arena.

I'd watch it again but I'm at work. Did Arena Master actually show some of the abilities there like this stone girdle thing? Is there a visual indication that the stone thing is active?


Himi posted:
I can now safely not train in boosting in the future
Boosts are always welcome Himi! :)

I'm thinking I'll follow the ranger subclass myself. But of course I'll wait to see what's offered by all three before deciding since I do have training in all 3 weapons. But right now it's probably ranger or champion.
I think the bloodmage would be interesting but I can definitely see myself falling all the time. I always try to get that one last swing in! :)



if that link doesnt work ill send the visionstone to Kiri for posting on the visionstones page
If people are still having troubles with the link, let me know. I've already downloaded it so I can easily put it in the WoD uploads area.

Konoko

[Konoko]

Did Arena Master actually show some of the abilities there like this stone girdle thing? Is there a visual indication that the stone thing is active?
Answering my own question :)

I re-played the visionstone and here's a little screenshot of the Arena Master with his activated Stone Girdle:
http://www.windsofdawn.org/uploads/Konoko/arenamaster-stone.gif

From the text log it sounds like there was some testing in the arena (I didn't watch this far). So download the visionstone and check it out if you want more info...

And the Arena Master did not have the Lava Cloak or whatever it's called so no demo of that.

Konoko

[Mjollnir]

From what he said the only "visable" abilities the champion has are the Stonegirdle and the Lava Cloak, since he didnt have one the only thing we got to see was the stonegirdle but he did explain about darkite and atkite.

Posted by Konoko
From the text log it sounds like there was some testing in the arena

Yes we moved to the arena when it became obvious that having venomous cave cobras spawn in town was disruptive to say the least (that and i think some of the fighters wanted to try beating up Arena Master)

[Konoko]

So does anyone have any more info on champions?
Anyone become one yet?

Anyone find the earthstone thing?

[Himitsu]

If I had any information I'd have already posted it here. I haven't heard anyone say anything about seeing the Arena Master again or in successfully getting Earthstone from an Ore.

[Fist of Fluff]

Things seemed to be progressing with the Champion subclass. Rose stood outside the barracks telling people a little about Champions, Arena Master showed up and told us he'd come back and teach us how to make Earthstones, and Master Champus showed up in the barracks. Since that time, fighters have checked several hundred (I know of two who have checked over 200 each) pieces of ore in an apparent fruitless attempt to become a Champion.

It looked like Joe was looking forward to Champions being in the lands so what happened? Did he or the subclass GM lose interest? What about Rangers and Bloodmages? I've heard nothing about them. In my opinion, nobody will get anything from checking ore until we are allowed to and for now it is just a waste of ore.

If I sound bitter and frustrated, I am. Although I personally have no immediate plans to switch to a subclass, I would like to see threads the GMs start be followed through instead of making us wait. I'd have preferred to see nothing until they were ready to be implemented.

(Getting more bitter each update)
Fist

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Fist of Fluff
If I sound bitter and frustrated, I am. Although I personally have no immediate plans to switch to a subclass, I would like to see threads the GMs start be followed through instead of making us wait. I'd have preferred to see nothing until they were ready to be implemented.

I agree and I was more than a little surprised when it was possible to check ore for earthstone before the Arena Master came back since I recall him saying that he'd teach us how to get some and that it'd be a quest. Now the npc is in and no fighter has yet to get an earthstone so do we need to wait for the Arena Master to return? If so, why was that npc put in if it's not possible to get an earthstone? Of course, something unexpected could have happened but still, it all has a feel of unprofessionalism.

Until then, all we can do is wait and see what happens.

[Connie_Crete]

Fist,

Don't git mad at tha world. Tha world gotted fussed at purdy good when the crumbly wall camed down. So now its gotta do stuff in steps.

a) Allow ya folks what be specialists ta furfill yer destiny (implement the subclass)

b) Make sure ya folks knows there be hope (commercials with Mr. Master and Rose comin ta town with summer release date)

c) Make sure it be a fun ride (after the final switch gets flipped, allow it to be at least a nominal puzzle to figgure out)

Sit back, git sum popcorn, grab a beer. It'll happen when it happens and it'll be different yet not unbalancin.


Connie

(who be waitin fer Aldernon ta invent tha UberBloodGossAxe what that only works when ya be mumblin befer she specializes inna fighter type job)

[Ruen]

Originally posted by Connie_Crete
(who be waitin fer Aldernon ta invent tha UberBloodGossAxe what that only works when ya be mumblin befer she specializes inna fighter type job)

Now there's a weapon for dwarves, the BeerBlade!

We fighters shouldn't get too angry at the world. We at least know that these new specialized forms of training are coming. That's more than the healers have.

[Mehan]

Originally posted by Ruen
We fighters shouldn't get too angry at the world. We at least know that these new specialized forms of training are coming. That's more than the healers have.

Rub it in. Grrrr.

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Mehan


Rub it in. Grrrr.

Hey at least she was concerned for healers...

[Coriakin]

The first champion exists. It is, unsurprisingly, Viola. :)

Coriakin

[Konoko]

A Champion exists now? Great!
Any idea how much ore it took her to find the earthstone thing?

I've heard people say they've tried tons and tons.
Did anything change or is it just like finding metal - patience? :)

[Lorikeet]

I heard 800.

[Drablak]

Which makes ore one of the rare items nowadays, and coined the new term: OW for ore-whoring [:D]

P.S. I just use the term "oring" myself.

[Steady Foot]

Originally posted by Lorikeet
I heard 800.

Where on the islands can you find 800 ore? I have trouble finding one.

[Fist of Fluff]

You need to spend several weeks clanning 18 hours a day doing nothing but collecting ore. That, or dig your own mine.

[Steady Foot]

Originally posted by Fist of Fluff
You need to spend several weeks clanning 18 hours a day doing nothing but collecting ore. That, or dig your own mine.

[:)]

Ok where can I find ore? I have looked in the passes east of town and only come up with a few, which did not turn into metal.

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Steady Foot
Ok where can I find ore? I have looked in the passes east of town and only come up with a few, which did not turn into metal.
The reason you can't find ore is that many many exiles are looking for ore. Like FoF said, if viola was clanning 18 hours a day looking for ore don't expect to find that many yourself. And ore is used for Champion stuff, metal, and also for ethereal stuff, so it's in high demand and many people are looking for it.

[Bob the Archer]

But there is a whole pile of ore rocks- in Bick's celler

(vicious unsubstantiated rumor only)

[Rincewind]

One recent development...

The price for checking ore for earthpower has doubled (10 -> 20c now), however apparently so has the chance of finding earthpowery stuff, so future champs should in theory only need to find around 400 ore each..pfft!

At least the price of metal has come back down to something more reasonable though as a result of all this orewhoring. If it's metal you need, rather than ore itself, probably better off buying it from a wannabe champ, than trying to find it yourself.

Rincewind

[Konoko]

So if you take ore to this NPC and you're looking for an earthstone thing, you will either end up with an earthstone, metal, or just a stone?

So you could get metal from it then, eh?
The NPC doesn't ruin any metal content by doing his earthstone check I guess?

Any ore should just be checked by this NPC then in case earthstone-ore taken to the blacksmith shop guy is ruined :)



Anyone know if a new mine or 2 or something is soon to be "dsicovered" to help with "oring"?

[Hidden]

Originally posted by Konoko
Any ore should just be checked by this NPC then in case earthstone-ore taken to the blacksmith shop guy is ruined :)
Except that it's only available to 3rd circle fighters with at least ~75 fell blade ranks who are willing to pay 4 times the cost. No thanks.
Anyone know if a new mine or 2 or something is soon to be "dsicovered" to help with "oring"?
It's already in. It's called Noids 1.5.

[Viola]

Maybe I can clear up some confusion.

Chance for metal at the blacksmith is 5% at a cost of 5c per check. Chance for metal at Erthor (in the Champion hall) is 10% at a cost of 20c.

Erthor also checks for earthpower minerals. This can be Atkite, Darkite, Dethite, Balthite. The chance to find a mineral is a mere 1%.

Depending on your "champion points" (see below,) there is also a very small chance to find an Earthstone. With 5,000 points, the chance is 0. With 7,500 points, the chance is 0.1% and with 10,000 points, the chance is 0.2%.

Erthor will give you a rough idea of your Champion points. He'll tell you something like "you have a long way to go," "you are making great progress," "you are nearly ready," or "you seem to be ready."

Champion points are based on total ranks, circle, fell blade ranks, # of ore checked, and possibly other things. I had around 7,500 points, and the "you are making great progress" message.

For best return on ore, I suggest finding a Champion candidate that you trust and let them check your ore for you. I checked several people's ore, paid the 20c fee, and gave back any metal and stone. Worked out pretty well for everyone.


- Viola

[Konoko]

Thanks for all the info Viola!
Although I still think I'll maybe try the ranger thing or whatever it'll be called.

Viola's suggestion about checking other people's ore and paying the xtra costs is kind of what I was hinting at Hidden. I just didn't phrase it well :)
But I'm sure not everyone would be willing to do this. I bet there are people out there right now trying to find ore just so that a potential champion won't :)

But for a free ore check for the ore-finder, that's a pretty good deal. Especially when you get back the stone or metal. It's win/win!

Now what would be paid if there was earthstone or a mineral found in ore you were checking for someone? Anyone have any guesses?


And what does ore go for nowadays? I'm sure it's on the expensive side...

Konoko

[Viola]

Originally posted by Konoko
Now what would be paid if there was earthstone or a mineral found in ore you were checking for someone? Anyone have any guesses?

I offered 2K if there was a mineral, 10K for earthstone. I never found anything but stone and metal in other people's ore, though.

And what does ore go for nowadays? I'm sure it's on the expensive side...

Some people are trying to sell for 100-150c. I'd recommend that any candidate refrain from buying it, to avoid contributing to the inflation.


- Viola

[Bob the Archer]

Viola, now that you are no longer a candadate, do you still have a better-than-your-average exile's chnce of finding metal in ore?

[Viola]

Originally posted by Bob the Archer
Viola, now that you are no longer a candadate, do you still have a better-than-your-average exile's chnce of finding metal in ore?

I believe all 3rd+ circle fighters have the same 10% chance, whether they are a candidate or not.

I still need to find Atkite and Darkite too, but I hope to be able to trade with someone who finds more than one. I have 2 extra Dethites and one extra Balthite to trade with.


- Viola

[Rincewind]

Interesting! Thanks Viola, that clears up alot of queries....

One thing though ...
Are the atkite/balthite etc minerals of any benefit to non champs ?
Can they even equip them ?

From your visionstones (thanks again for those!), it looks like they need to be trained to get much in the way of benefits, so i'd guess they're similar to using goss/FB/BB without training...possible to do, but not of any significant advantage.




Rincewind

[Rincewind]

Oh, ok, another thing [:D]

As far as i can tell, there's no connection at all, between chamipons (the earth/earth/ore obsessed fighters) and Gaia, the supposed earth goddess, which i think is a pity.

One of the core, and often most interesting aspects to most fantasy books/games/lands is the religious angle, usually polytheistic with followers of each getting different benefits/penalties depending on their chosen gods realm of influence. There's often also a fair amount of rivalry between both the followers, and the gods themselves.

So far gods and religion have never really played much of role in clanlord...Gaia's the only one with a name and a temple, but she's never had much of an influence on plots or stories. I do recall long ago some rumours about a sun god's temple, but i've not heard of it for ages, and dont think anyone ever found it (i presume because it never got put in).

With the new subclasses now coming in, and their strong associations with sun/moon/earth, perhaps its a good time to develop this angle, and add a whole new dimension to the world ?

Rincewind, heading off on a complete tangent...[:)]

[Viola]

Originally posted by Rincewind
Are the atkite/balthite etc minerals of any benefit to non champs ?
Can they even equip them ?

From your visionstones (thanks again for those!), it looks like they need to be trained to get much in the way of benefits, so i'd guess they're similar to using goss/FB/BB without training...possible to do, but not of any significant advantage.

They can be equipped, but as far as I can tell, there is no advantage whatsoever to non-champions. Even now, with very little training, I still can't use them.

'/useitem balthite /reflect' gives me a message that tells me what I need to train. I am following that advice to see where it takes me.


- Viola

[Rincewind]

Ah, thanks Viola!

Much as i expected, though it does ruin my aspirations of suddenly becoming a superwarrior overnight[:D]


Rincewind

[Rincewind]

Originally posted by Hidden


It's already in. It's called Noids 1.5.

From the minutes of the latest board meeting :
The increasingly popular activity of Ore-Diving (also known as Ore-Jumping by some), refering to the highly dangerous practice of leaping solo or tandem (or in any other small group) into the darkness of the new noids expansion in seach of valuable ores, has been classified as an extreme sport by the board of the Mystical Insurance Company, and thus is not covered by any accident insurance policies taken out with our representatives, until such time as we are able to better arrange some form of rescue/retrieval team for that area.

You have been warned![;)]

Rincewind
Founder and Chairman of the Mystical Insurance Company