Awaria

[Drablak]

Ok so what's the deal with Awaria? I heard so many different things that I just don't know what to think.

I've heard that it's good up to 1/4 your faustus. I've heard that it's no good at all and that Respia will do more for your self heal than Awaria rank for rank.

On the other hand a few healers said that their self heal improved a lot as they trained Awaria, but I don't know what their other ranks were like.

Independently from the fact that it was changed a long time ago because it was too good, is it good now for self heal and if so are there requirements like high Faustus?

Drablak

[Himitsu]

This thread (http://www.windsofdawn.org/forum/showthread.html?t=1023&page=2&pp=20) might have what you're looking for.

[Drablak]

Oh well, I searched in the "investigation/training" section, silly me. I'm not sure about the answers in that thread though, and most of it switched to Rodnus discussions and passing the test. More precisely, I'm not sure we got all the answers in that thread. Perhaps there is a healer out there who had a good experience with Awaria and can comment?

[Himitsu]

Oh well, I searched in the "investigation/training" section, silly me. I'm not sure about the answers in that thread though, and most of it switched to Rodnus discussions and passing the test. More precisely, I'm not sure we got all the answers in that thread. Perhaps there is a healer out there who had a good experience with Awaria and can comment?

I just used the search button and looked for awaria in the title.

As to that thread, the apparent consensus was that Awaria helps with self-heal by working with one's Faustus and most people don't have enough Faustus to bother with Awaria until after 4th circle. It was also agreed upon that Respia helps with one's self-heal a lot more than Awaria however training a bit with Awaria does help and isn't completely useless.

I don't know if Lark's around but I think she has a ledger in Awaria.

[Drablak]

As to that thread, the apparent consensus was that Awaria helps with self-heal by working with one's Faustus and most people don't have enough Faustus to bother with Awaria until after 4th circle. It was also agreed upon that Respia helps with one's self-heal a lot more than Awaria however training a bit with Awaria does help and isn't completely useless.

I was looking for confirmation that Awaria uses 1/4 Faustus and that if you have 100 Faustus then nothing above 25 Awaria would help you, or some other such parameters. We're working on a revamp of Braveheart's Guide and I wanted some data on Awaria. I heard mostly it was a useless trainer but I can't bring myself to believe that. And I heard Haenk say he trained with her and saw a major improvement, more effect on self-heal rank for rank than the equivalent Respia. Of course I don't know what his training was at the time (I think he said 480 Faustus but I'm not sure how much Awaria). Others I know who have trained lots of Awaria are Veer and possibly Slyph?

Bottom line is that not much *is* known about Awaria and it confuses the hell out of many newly 2nd level healers so I figured it would be good to put something in the guide.

[Fist of Fluff]

The effectiveness of Awaria is indeed tied to your amount of Faustus but not the way it has been suggested here. I talked with Slyph a while ago about this (for more information talk to Slyph directly) and I decided to test it for myself with a healer.

Each time you heal one "pulse" you use a certain amount of spirit and your health goes up by x amount. The more Faustus you have, the more spirit used by each pulse and therefore the more health you regain by the pulse.

What Awaria does is increase the amount of health regained by each pulse without increasing the amount of spirit used.

According to Slyph, the "effective cap" on the amount your Awaria to Faustus ratio is 2:1. Slyph herself has 125 Faustus and 250 Awaria and self-heals tremendously fast. She also has 600 Respia to back this up with.

I have done my own tests with a healer who has 200 Faustus and is still working on Awaria (up to 130 now) and have seen a big increase in his self-heal.

What I recommend from my own experience for a good self-heal is Spirtus, Respia, and (now that I understand it) Awaria.

Spirtus somehow seems to work well for self-heal and it works incredibly well when another healer is healing you. Respia is always needed to compensate for Faustus and recovering spirit to self-heal. Awaria makes each self-heal pulse more effective without using more spirit.

Hope this helps and, as I said earlier, if you want more detail about Awaria talk to Slyph. She's the one who inspired me to test Awaria for myself.

[Mehan]

I myself like Awaria. I trained a bit (40-50) of her and noticed a drastic improvement in my self-heal speed.

Of course, I haven't been out of the library in ages, so who knows if this changed or not ;p

[Drablak]

Now that is interesting, thanks FoF! It finally makes more sense. Like my {censored} teacher always said: "To be able to explain something you need to understand it" [:D]

Oh and Mehan: we miss you! Why don't you come out more?

D.

[Mehan]

A bookcase fell on me.

I call it the my-school-sucks-and-has-a-firewall-but-will-be-opening-port-5010-soon bookcase.

Go figure.

[Slyph]

. . . According to Slyph, the "effective cap" on the amount your Awaria to Faustus ratio is 2:1. Slyph herself has 125 Faustus and 250 Awaria and self-heals tremendously fast. She also has 600 Respia to back this up with. . .

I caution anyone interested in Awaria training to remember that the above numbers are rough estimates (rough estimates that AnnGm once confirmed, however). Regarding Awaria, Fist got it right, except for the part about my spirit-recovery: 600 Respia lessons isn't accurate.

Awaria, poor thing, is an underrated trainer. I often hear that her lessons are unhelpful or, worse, utterly useless. You can't use Awaria lessons for other people, exiles say; it's better to train with Respia. Nevertheless, a healer that stays on her feet, that can jump in and take damage for the team in a pinch, is using Awaria training for others.

I can't recall a top self-heal healer* that doesn't have some Awaria training. I suppose a few might be out there, of course.

-Slyph

*Here, I don't mean rods or draws, which are healers that can be healed by others astonishingly fast.

[Himitsu]

I can't recall a top self-heal healer* that doesn't have some Awaria training. I suppose a few might be out there, of course.

I just want to see if I understand this correctly. Instead of getting enough Awaria to match 1/4 of one's Faustus one should get enough Awaria to match 2 times one's Faustus?

Also, is getting less than that amout useful or does the training only become noticeable when you get to the 2 Awaria per 1 Faustus training? Would having a 1:1 Faustus:Awaria ratio make a difference?

[Slyph]

I just want to see if I understand this correctly. Instead of getting enough Awaria to match 1/4 of one's Faustus one should get enough Awaria to match 2 times one's Faustus?

If a healer has 100 Faustus lessons and 500 Awaria lessons, roughly 200 of her Awaria lessons would actually help the healer. Whether a healer should train less than 2:1, train more of it, or forget about Awaria altogether is best left to the healer.

Also, is getting less than that amout useful or does the training only become noticeable when you get to the 2 Awaria per 1 Faustus training? Would having a 1:1 Faustus:Awaria ratio make a difference?

A single rank of Awaria helps, even if it is not noticable. I noticed Awaria's effects on Slyph's training long before she had even a single Awaria lesson for every Faustus lesson, let alone two. Keep in mind that, for her level, Slyph's Faustus is relatively low; small changes Awaria were easily seen.

[Taryn]

There are many myths about Awaria. I haven't finished my research, but this thread has prompted me to speak prematurely.

I traced the origin of the myth that Awaria is capped at twice one's Faustus to this post on c.s.m.g.a by Warren J. Dew (psychohist@aol.com) in the thread Re: CL: Awaria:


Date: 2002-07-07 23:52:38 PST Pernille Jensen posts, in part:


On 05 May 2000, Joe Williams wrote in message
[joe-A02F12.04521805052000@news.pacbell.net]:


Awaria is pinned to something like no more than double your normal self-healing rate, if I remember correctly. So further healing training will be twice as effective (or whatever) for you now.


So according to Joe there is some kind of invisible cap on Awaria where more training has no effect, but probably so high that it doesn't really matter.


I would read that comment differently.

In particular, my interpretation would be that 1 rank of Awaria adds to the self healing benefit of a given pulse as much as, say, 1 rank of Faustus - without costing any more spirit, unlike Faustus - but that the maximum number of ranks of Awaria that actually 'work' is no more than twice the number of Faustus ranks you have. In other words, self heal would be three times as effective with Awaria 2 Faustus 1 as with Awaria 0 Faustus 1, but going to Awaria 100 Faustus 1 would add no further benefit, at least until one trained more with Faustus.


However, 1 rank of Awaria adds much less self-healing benefit than 1 rank of Faustus. (Think about it: if Awaria added as much self-healing as Faustus, without costing spirit, for self-heal, it would be overpowered.) So the conclusion is wrong. If there is a cap, it's much higher than 2:1.

My Awaria:Faustus ratio is greater than 3:1. Awaria still continues to benefit me. When I plot that benefit, it's a straight line. My net self-healing rate is still far less than twice my nonAwaria self-healing rate, so I cannot say anything about that alleged cap.

The other myth is that for any healer it's worth training some amount of Awaria. I don't think so, although my research is not yet complete. I am assuming that 1 rank of Awaria adds a fixed amount of health per moonstone pulse. And that fixed amount doesn't depend on Faustus or anything else. Except, I'll admit the possibility that for *very* large amounts of Awaria training, that fixed amount might decrease. [Check Google for a post by HelpfulGM.]

So, the Awaria benefit helps those most who can reuse their moonstone frequently. The more Faustus you have, the more spirit you consume per pulse, and so the less frequently you can reuse your moonstone. So Awaria is best for people with high Respia:Faustus ratios. Like Slyph, Lorikeet, and myself. If your ratio is not so high, you are better off putting those ranks in Respia to increase your ratio.

How high? My research is not complete, but it suggests that you need at least a 3:1 ratio, which is higher than what most healers have.

Taryn.

[Slyph]

However, 1 rank of Awaria adds much less self-healing benefit than 1 rank of Faustus. (Think about it: if Awaria added as much self-healing as Faustus, without costing spirit, for self-heal, it would be overpowered.) So the conclusion is wrong. If there is a cap, it's much higher than 2:1.

The other myth is that for any healer it's worth training some amount of Awaria. I don't think so, although my research is not yet complete. I am assuming that 1 rank of Awaria adds a fixed amount of health per moonstone pulse. And that fixed amount doesn't depend on Faustus or anything else. Except, I'll admit the possibility that for *very* large amounts of Awaria training, that fixed amount might decrease. [Check Google for a post by HelpfulGM.]



The amount of health a rank of Awaria heals has always been assumed to be a fixed amount that depends on nothing else, but the number of ranks of Awaria that works does depend on how many ranks of Faustus a healer has. As long as this soft cap has not been reached, a single rank of Awaria does help a healer, no matter how insignificant that may seem.

Warren's earlier explanation of Awaria was confirmed to be roughly correct by AnnGM, which you don't mention. I'll go by what AnnG confirms rather than what any player supposes.

It would have helped if you quoted HelpfulGM or at least provided an URL for the post that you refer to; how can someone possibly find the post you mean, among so many?

[Taryn]

The amount of health a rank of Awaria heals has always been assumed to be a fixed amount that depends on nothing else, but the number of ranks of Awaria that works does depend on how many ranks of Faustus a healer has. As long as this soft cap has not been reached, a single rank of Awaria does help a healer, no matter how insignificant that may seem.

I'm not disagreeing with this. I'm saying that if the above is true, that cap CANNOT be 2:1 Awaria:Faustus ranks, because I have more than a 3:1 ratio.

Warren's earlier explanation of Awaria was confirmed to be roughly correct by AnnGM, which you don't mention.

I wasn't aware of any such post by AnnGM, and I thought I looked through that thread *very* carefully. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

I'll go by what AnnG confirms rather than what any player supposes.

So will I. Except that I'll go by what I *measure* over what any GM claims to be true. You're welcome to do your own measurements. Indeed, given what you've said when we were discussing this in town center, you're one of the very few others who are within range to do such measurements.

[:)]

It would have helped if you quoted HelpfulGM or at least provided an URL for the post that you refer to; how can someone possibly find the post you mean, among so many?

Sorry. The post can be found by using Google's Advanced Search: set the newsgroup to csmga, set the author to Helpful, and set the required words to "Awaria" and "cap". There's only one such post. It's in the thread "CL: trainer caps [was Re: CL: Awaria]" and is dated 2000/05/03.

Taryn.

[Slyph]

I'm not disagreeing with this. I'm saying that if the above is true, that cap CANNOT be 2:1 Awaria:Faustus ranks, because I have more than a 3:1 ratio.

You're talking about a soft cap, here, right? I don't mean to say one cannot train more Awaria than 2:1, just that doing so may result in Awaria ranks that will not help a healer.

I wasn't aware of any such post by AnnGM, and I thought I looked through that thread *very* carefully. Perhaps you could point it out to me?

Here it is: Ann's article (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1005171232d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=080720021522229238%25ann%40admin.SPAMLESSclanlord.com)

. . .I'll go by what I *measure* over what any GM claims to be true. You're welcome to do your own measurements. Indeed, given what you've said when we were discussing this in town center, you're one of the very few others who are within range to do such measurements.

I tend to mistrust player measurements simply because measurements of character abilities are difficult, if not impossible; players have no access to the numbers supporting the skill. I hesitate to even call such activity "measurement." If you discover that one can train more effective Awaria over the 2:1 ratio, I'll be thrilled, but I'm happy to let you do it; I don't want to invest in unusable ranks.

Sorry. [HelpfulGM's] can be found by using Google's Advanced Search: set the newsgroup to csmga, set the author to Helpful, and set the required words to "Awaria" and "cap". There's only one such post. It's in the thread "CL: trainer caps [was Re: CL: Awaria]" and is dated 2000/05/03.

I found the article you refer to: Helpful's article (http://groups.google.com/groups?q=helpful+awaria+cap&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=HelpfulGM-26D945.15263403052000%40news.apple.com&rnum=1)

Helpful's article isn't part of an Awaria thread, but an tangent of an Awaria thread. It doesn't address Awaria specifically, does it? From what I read, the article merely discusses possible types of ranks caps. There are a few types of rank caps in Clan Lord, so this article clarifies nothing about Awaria; it does not support your theory except to suggest that diminishing returns are possible for some trainers. You may be right in the end, but you haven't convinced me yet. I'm eager to hear about your future results, at any rate. I'll cheerfully change my mind when I'm convinced.

[Taryn]

I'm not disagreeing with this. I'm saying that if the above is true, that cap CANNOT be 2:1 Awaria:Faustus ranks, because I have more than a 3:1 ratio.

You're talking about a soft cap, here, right? I don't mean to say one cannot train more Awaria than 2:1, just that doing so may result in Awaria ranks that will not help a healer.


No. I'm talking about no cap at all as I passed the 2:1 threshold.

Perhaps describing my measurements will make this more clear.

I've measured how long it takes me to heal from red to full without using the moonstone (i.e. just Troilusing). After each rank in Awaria, I measure how long it takes to heal from red to full, using the moonstone N times. I difference the times, then divide by N. That number represents how much healing I get from one moonstone pulse.

I plotted that number vs. Awaria ranks. It's a perfect straight line. It did not change when I passed 2:1 Awaria:Faustus ranks. Or 3:1.

I still get *exactly* the same benefit from training Awaria now that I got when I started training Awaria. Exactly the same increase in healing per moonstone pulse.

As for Ann's post, where she said of Warren's post, "Roughly correct, yes." that's pretty vague confirmation. It's also equivalent to "Not exactly correct, no." I'm curious about what *is* exactly correct, and I'm trying to find out.
[:)]

It *may* be that the 2:1 ratio applies to one's *total* Faustus, i.e. including one's base Faustus (the rate at which one heals without any training). I don't have that much Awaria yet. But "soon". I had intended to publish my results after that. If I do find such a cap, I'll publish it here.

Or, it *may* be that the 2:1 ratio applies not to ranks but the healing benefit itself, which is how I read Joe's post. That is, the maximum extra healing per pulse from Awaria training won't exceed twice the healing per pulse if you hadn't trained Awaria (i.e. from your base Faustus + Faustus training). That's *alot* more Awaria, and even I plan to switch to something else before that.

[later edit: The reason why I think the above is more likely is that Warren's conclusion depends on his assumption that the self-healing benefit per pulse per rank of Awaria is the same as the self-healing benefit per pulse per rank of Faustus. From my measurements, that's clearly way wrong.]

As for Helpful's post, admittedly it didn't say anything concrete about Awaria. But it implied that the Awaria "cap", if it exists, might not be suddenly more Awaria has no effect, but rather additional Awaria has diminished effect. So, if I do hit a "cap", I'm also curious what kind of a "cap" it is. But so far, I haven't hit any kind of cap at all.

I don't want to invest in unusable ranks.

Even if there is no Awaria cap at all, my research suggests that for any given amount of Faustus, there's an optimum balance of Awaria to Respia which maximizes self-heal for a minimum of ranks. Given some things you said when we discussed this in town center, I've drawn some inferences about your training, and I think you have that optimum balance. That's a tribute to your instincts.
[:)]

(Lorikeet, on the other hand, I think would find some Awaria to help her self-heal more than the same ranks of Respia, if that's what she was interested in.)

However, the existence of any kind of cap in the vicinity of 2:1 Awaria:Faustus is a nonissue for most healers, since few have that much Awaria. Indeed, until we had that discussion in town center, I didn't think there *was* anyone else except me. [:)]

My more important point is that my research suggests any healer with less than a 3:1 Respia:Faustus ratio is better off spending ranks on Respia rather than Awaria to improve their self-heal. Which I think is most healers. You and I are self-heal specialists.
[:)]

[The only exception to this I can think of is a healer who usually does not run out of spirit when self-healing, perhaps because they are a Sespus specialist. I exhaust my pool of spirit very fast when self-healing, so what determines the frequency which I can use my moonstone is Respia:Faustus.]

Taryn.

[Sor]

Thanks Taryn and Slyph for sharing your experiences regarding Awaria. I plan to improve my self-heal but I for one don't have the analytic mind for such studies... your imput definitely make things clearer! :D

[Taryn]

Well, I found the "awaria" cap. But it's not a function of just awaria and faustus. Specifically, if you get X amount of self-healing from abilities which cost spirit, your total self-healing cannot exceed 2X. That is, the amount of self-healing from abilities which do not cost spirit cannot exceed that which does.

Since Sprite (and Spirtus) also provide some self-healing which does not cost spirit (the "rodnus" effect works on self-heal), such training combines with Awaria training against this cap. After reaching this cap, further Awaria training does nothing for you (until you train more faustus).

For those who want to know what this means in terms of ranks, this "soft" awaria cap is a little higher than 4 times faustus minus 2 times sprite (spirtus).

Taryn.

[Farhope]

Oh! Not easy to understand for me! :-) ... but I only have Spirtus, so I don't worry ;-)

Thank you for sharing the informations!

[Bob the Archer]

Is any of this affectied by Troilus?

[Delirium]

For those who want to know what this means in terms of ranks, this "soft" awaria cap is a little higher than 4 times faustus minus 2 times sprite (spirtus).

Taryn.

Thanks for the info Taryn! But if I understand your formula, it seems to say awaria is half as effective as sprite for self-healing!? For example, if a healer has 100 fastus and no sprite, then the awaria soft cap is 400. But if a healer has 100 fastus and 200 sprite, then the awaria cap is 0 (or a "little higher" as you say). If this is correct, I'm never training with awaria again - I'll stick with sprite since sprite also helps with things other than self healing.

-Delirium

[Taryn]

Is any of this affectied by Troilus?
Not as far I know. I doubt it.

For example, if a healer has 100 fastus and no sprite, then the awaria soft cap is 400. But if a healer has 100 fastus and 200 sprite, then the awaria cap is 0 (or a "little higher" as you say).
Remember that sprite training includes about 30 faustus per 100. Assuming no training with new Spirtus, that means the soft "awaria" cap is a little higher than 4 times faustus from nonsprite sources minus 2/3 times sprite. So if a healer has 100 faustus from sources other than sprite, it would take them a little more than 600 sprite to reach the cap. (Also note that everyone has a base amount of faustus.)

But yes, anyone who trains as a serious rodpoint shouldn't bother wasting any ranks on awaria, since presumably they'll hit the cap through sprite alone.

Taryn.

[Taryn]

Rethinking what Delirium wrote.

In Delirium's example, if the healer with 100 faustus and 200 sprite had 60 of that 100 faustus come from sprite (so they only have 40 faustus from nonsprite sources), then they'd also be at the cap. With actually a slightly better self-heal (since the sprite would also add respia). Obviously, that's better than 400 awaria with 100 faustus.

What hurts the awaria healer is faustus. And yet, because of the cap, you have to get faustus from somewhere. And the best place to get it from (from a self-healing perspective) is sprite. Which obviates the need for awaria.

It's only reasonable to train awaria if: you plan on never healing others faster (never getting more faustus from any trainer), and you're below the cap. [AND you have a high enough respia:faustus ratio so that awaria gives more self-heal than respia.] But it's not that hard to hit the cap with sprite alone (as Delirium's example shows).

I consider it a mistake that the "awaria" cap is linked to sprite/spirtus. I'd guess the reason is it was easiest for the gods to implement the cap this way.

Taryn.