Troilus

[Rhone]

I'm curious about the effectiveness of Troilus training. My next plan of action is to train with him after Evus. My goal is to obtain as much as Troilus training as that is available. Some have mentioned that I may regret doing such or that I could use the ranks better else where. My question: is a 1000+ Troilus worth it? and How fast does one self-heal with 1000+ Troilus?
-Rhone

[Fist of Fluff]

Studying 1000 ranks of Troilus is like overtraining with any trainer. Your other skills will suffer for it. I'd say the only trainer you can't overtrain would be Evus.

If you have your heart set on getting huge amounts of Troilus, or any other trainer, I would suggest alternating it with other trainers. I study 10 of one trainer then switch to 10 of another, often alternating just two trainers. This way I don't get bored with a single trainer and I keep my skills balanced better.

I only have 54 Troilus myself, but many people have much more than that. How much you get is up to you, but consider what it is you like to do in the lands. If you are a solo hunter and go everywhere alone with no healer then some Troilus is a good idea. If you hunt with groups like I do then Troilus really isn't much of a factor and other skills like Detha and Histia are better at keeping me alive.

If you want to get 1000 Troilus then do so, but consider alternating with other trainers so you don't end up slaughtering everything you hunt but can't hit anything you vanquish.

[Steady Foot]

I have just about 35 to 40 Troilus. Seems to do for me. It does mean I either travel in a group with healers or learn where the safe areas are if I am traveling in areas greater than my abilities. I'm about 3+ (almost 4th) circle fighter.

Combined with that I have 150+ Hista. This means I can take some damage before worrying about running. Since I stay close to town a lot, due to OOC reasons, I find that running from one place to another is usually enough to bring my health back up.

Fist of Fluff has been around longer than I. I pretty much have followed Fist's advise.

1000 ranks is a lot of OOC time.

[Konoko]

I only have 15 troilus. I consider myself definitely a group fighter because 15 would not cut it for me in solo life. I'm very impatient though so I hate waiting :)
I so go on solo things but only in usually when I'm off skinning in more "easy" areas.


Another char of mine is much more of a solo fighter. He has something like 125. I found this range to be pretty good. If i get hurt, I can just go sit somewhere for a bit and be healed back up. I have quite a few histia too (125) so of course, it would be faster with less :)
But it does what it's supposed to do I guess!


Now a side question - as for wearing an OE, does that really make much difference when one is troilusing? Is it that much difference when one has a lot of histia and such? Or more useful for lower-ranked players?


Konoko

[Lorikeet]

1000 troilus seems like overkill to me. You might as well play a healer then ;) Healers have good self-heal but can't hit very well. Seems like a fighter with just troilus would be about the same. Troilus can't overcome something tough hitting on you. If you want to know more about this, ask Baffina. She has a ledger in Troilus and may have some interesting thoughts on the matter.

[Therian]

1000 troilus seems like overkill to me. You might as well play a healer then ;) Healers have good self-heal but can't hit very well. Seems like a fighter with just troilus would be about the same.

I have a character who I originally intended to follow the mystic path and so trained Bodrus and Troilus for a long time in preparation for solo trips doing whatever it would turn out mystics do. I eventually gave up on the whole mystic idea (I lack the patience [:D]) and made him a fighter, but he needs remedial training now.

After so many ranks in those two trainers alone he slaughters most things he can hit and now can't earn much experience except by sitting in the library. (At least until he reads up on the fighter trainers.)

So unbalanced training with Troilus does carry that hazard.

(On the bright side, when he's damaged he can go sit in a corner and watch his health recover in just about a minute.)

--Therian [:D]

[Lorikeet]

I have a character who I originally intended to follow the mystic path and so trained Bodrus and Troilus for a long time in preparation for solo trips doing whatever it would turn out mystics do. I eventually gave up on the whole mystic idea (I lack the patience [:D]) and made him a fighter, but he needs remedial training now.


--Therian [:D]

Heh, I have one of those too, Therian :rolleyes:.

[Konoko]

I only have 15 troilus. I consider myself definitely a group fighter because 15 would not cut it for me in solo life.

Just a little correction.
Apparently I have 35 troilus. I thought Scribus went weird (I had problems when I was adding trainers a while back but my other rank counting sources all have me at 35 too). I would have sworn I had 15 but I guess 1 day I trained it for a bit.

Anyways, everything I still said in my orig post stands... :)


Konoko

[Himitsu]

I have a character who I originally intended to follow the mystic path and so trained Bodrus and Troilus for a long time in preparation for solo trips doing whatever it would turn out mystics do. I eventually gave up on the whole mystic idea (I lack the patience [:D]) and made him a fighter, but he needs remedial training now.

I don't know why people think Mystics need tons of Troilus. All of our skills are either group oriented or can be performed in the safety of town and our wanderings can be safely done with a lot of running. I was able to get my Alchemy Bowl, Alchemy Kit, and all of the the Mystic quests completed with between 0 and 100 Bodrus and no Troilus training at all. Of course, I had a few times where I fell but I learned from those mistakes and did better the next time or asked for others to accompany me so I'd be kept safe.


(On the bright side, when he's damaged he can go sit in a corner and watch his health recover in just about a minute.)[:D]

If you want a solo money maker who is able to spend time fighting small furry critters then a couple hundred Evus, 100 Skea, and as much Troilus as you can stand seems like it would be one way to do it. You won't be able to fight the really strong stuff but you'll be able to get a steady income without having to need a healer and with as little downtime as possible.

On the other hand, you would need Troilus because you would get hit a lot. What if you didn't get hit? What if instead of Troilus you put those 1000 ranks in Evus and Swengus? In this case you wouldn't need as much Troilus because you wouldn't get hit as often and you could probably stop the training at 100 and be ok. With this route you would be a more effective fighter since you'd have more fighting skills.

This isn't to say that 1000 Troilus is a bad decision. It's just high slaughter and you have to keep in mind what you'd be able to do and what you wouldn't be able to do with that kind of training. Good luck with whatever you decide. [:)]

[Therian]

I don't know why people think Mystics need tons of Troilus.

Well, how would the rest of us actually know what Mystics need? [;)]

--Therian [:D]

[Himitsu]

Well, how would the rest of us actually know what Mystics need? [;)]

True enough, not even Mystics know that for sure. :rolleyes:

It's just, if Mystics had a lot of Troilus then wouldn't we fall less often and wouldn't we be more inclined to leave town? [:o]

Or maybe not, Mystics are an odd lot. :eek:

[Rhone]

Thanks for the help everyone. (* note- that I wasn't planning to straight out train 1000+ Troilus without anything inbetween) :)-

Where will I go now?!?!
I still do plan on getting max Troilus, though it will take me many a year. My main focus now and for a while is fighting.

Again, kudzu for the help!!

-Rhone

[Archemar]

Hello,

my 2 coins:
I am nearing 200 now and I think I will stop Troilus for a long time.
When things goes nasty, no amount of troilus will help you.
If I want to get some exp by killing I must relay on luck it and be with a strong party. my last non slaughter were bears (not all).
I vanquish or kill only tree, noth and greater noid (jade I thing they are called).
Needless to say I fall many a time on those attempt.

As a fighter your survival depend more on Histia than Troilus.
You might whish to spend at least half of your rank in first hall teacher (and keep some for pathfinding, tongue, troilus whatever).

Archemar

[Taryn]

Rhone, as a fighter you have a better alternative to training with Troilus to recover from damage -- you can avoid taking most damage in the first place from most creatures by training defense. That's a more efficient approach for a fighter to stay healthy. If you like the idea of not depending on healers, you might want to target the amount of Troilus you train to handle the rate of damage from "luck" hits from those creatures you can brick.

For example, with 1000 troilus you can take continuous hits from one artak indefinitely. You *might* be able to take hits from two artaks, or one bolok, indefinitely, but I'm not sure of that. Of course, if you hit and run, you don't have to take continuous hits. But if you could avoid 90% of the hits by training defense, you'd need only 100 troilus to do the same. And I'd think you could brick artaks and boloks with less than 900 swengus.

Konoko, with the amount of training with Troilus that you have, you should be able to tell the difference when equipping your orga eye. If you would like to see the difference, time how fast it takes you to self-heal from say the yellow-green transition to full health with and without the orga eye.

Taryn.

[Bob the Archer]

A point here on "wasted" ranks.

For a fighter, who must carefully ballance his training to effectively hunt those beasties that give him the maximum experience without putting so many ranks into trainers that do not directly help his ability to do so, it might be considered a waste to put more into a trainer than the most economical possible ammount.
However, for those exiles who gain their ranks primarily through other means, the library or shares, it will not unballance the character in any way to put the extra ranks into any field of study that the exile chooses.

Yes, while every rank is infintessimally more difficult to achieve than the preceding rank, I believe that the increase is a simple geometric and not an exponential one. The percieved difficulty of achiving another rank is primarily expressed in the so called slaughter level of an exile, which is only applicable to those who hunt for ranks.

[Himitsu]

The percieved difficulty of achiving another rank is primarily expressed in the so called slaughter level of an exile, which is only applicable to those who hunt for ranks.

Yet the slaughter level also applies to experience gained in the library since it'll take you more library time to earn a rank the higher your slaughter level is so you can't neglect its effect on quickly you gain ranks.

[Bob the Archer]

Yet the slaughter level also applies to experience gained in the library since it'll take you more library time to earn a rank the higher your slaughter level is so you can't neglect its effect on quickly you gain ranks.

I dissagree- The difficulty of gaining a library rank does increase, but that is due to the number of "experience points" required for a rank increasing with each rank earned, not because it is more difficult to gain a number of experience points from the library based on ones slaughter level.
To sum up my (generalized) perception of the system:
the number of "experience points" to gain a level is fixed (not variable with profession or ability) but increases in a somewhat geometrical (and definitly not exponential) fashion woth every rank. So an exile with 1000 ranks needs more to gain 1 more rank than an exile with 100, but a fighter with 1000 and a healer with 1000 need the same number of points. Both the fighter and healer, if studieng in the same library, earn the same number of points from their reading. But the fighter will earn more points from hunting something in his range based on slaughter level than the healer would on the same beastie, but the healer will get his out of library experience from shares and from healing experience.

[Rhone]

Ok, back again....
Well, I'm not going to say what I'm going to train. Its seems to change daily. I may become a brick so detha, swengus, et cetra may be my main trainers. 150-200 Troilus sounds good.

Anyway, I'm still curious though. With 1000 Troilus how fast would one self heal?

-Rhone

[Taryn]

Yet the slaughter level also applies to experience gained in the library since it'll take you more library time to earn a rank the higher your slaughter level is so you can't neglect its effect on quickly you gain ranks.

From CMSGA topic CL: Resetting all the high lvl folk [was Re: Clan Lord vs. Graal]
I know we already stated that the amount needed to get rank N+1 is (B + (N*k)) where B = some base number and k is some konstant, but k is really-really small, compared to B.

What this means is that how much experience it takes to get your next rank depends only on how many ranks you already have. A higher slaughter level doesn't cause you to need more experience to get that next rank. Rather, needing more experience to get another rank implies you have a higher slaughter level (because you have more ranks, and every rank increases your slaughter). But for a given duration of study in a library, you'll gain the same number of ranks whether you choose to train with high-slaughter trainers or low-slaughter trainers.

Taryn.

[Poesy]

It never even occurred to me to consider the difference between gaining ranks in the lands and in the library with respect to slaughter levels... that's really interesting. If Taryn's right, (I trust HelpfulGM as far as... well... I can throw pretty far... but anyway...,) then since I get the vast majority of my ranks from the library I shouldn't need to pay any attention to my slaughter level. Hmm.

--Poesy

[Delirium]

I seem to recall hearing from AnnGM in the fairgrounds something similar to the HelpfulGM quote Taryn cites with reguard to exp per rank.

The other side to the equation is that, while all ranks increase your slaughter level, they do not do so equally. Non-profession skills (brewing, baking, etc.) contribute less than profession skills, and 'useful' skills (e.g. pathfinding) contribute more than 'role-playing' skills.