What is Pathfinding?

[Aerick]

Does anyone know exactly what pathfinding is? I think that it has been asked on the Newsgroup, and the response was an evasive one. Something like "It works about how it's supposed to, and makes sense. Honest."

On the one hand, it seems just what it is: the ability to see paths that others would miss, and use them.

But the shortcuts really screw with this view. To go from N town, directly to the fields is not a path. It's like a wrinkle in reality. A Tessalation (Tesseract?)! Anyway, it's teleportation, and I thought that was a mystic skill. Are those OOC conveniences, to make the skill more useful? Perhaps if we figure out precisely what pathfinding IS, it would open some doors to us.

This could be like analyzing what Atkus is, and if it has similarly odd properties, or it could be like figuring out Purgatory, which will matter if we listen to Tenebrion...

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts?

[Farhope]

I don't think it is magic, ... I can use it, so it doesn't require to be smart. I requires to have good eyes. When you train with the Marsh hermit, you feel that "your eye grows keener"...

I don't understand the fact that some paths look to be shortcuts (are shorcuts in fact).

[Nunul]

Well, lets see here youngster...

Facts:

[Konoko]

Check out the eGroup/Yahoo Group on pathfinding:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cl_pathfinders

There are probably a number of posts and stuff there that might answers some of your questions...


I think the current theory is that the more you go back (ie each day) to try and open something like Wisher's Gate, the chance will continue to increase until you can see sparklies and then open it.

Don't quote me on this though! Go to the web scroll and check out the details. I don't follow the PF stuff. I can get into NWF with my 17 PF so I'm happy! :)

Konoko

[Lex]

The same teleportation effect is seen when you enter a crowded room and are on the other side of everybody.

If you take every snell on Puddleby isle, and line them up, they don't really mesh perfectly. I mean, how does Snagglewood and the places beyond fit between Tanglewood, EF, and the lake? I sort of think of it, IC, as going through a narrow pass that you move over and don't notice in other areas. Unless Snagglewood itself and the entrance to it are supposed to be magical. Myabe it's true that PF is a sort of magic.

Technically, IC, if PF was just a "I can see the path" thing, you should gain PF training by following others through these paths as you now know their location and have a good idea how to cross them. But if it's got a magical element, it would work the way it does now.

I kind of see the farm-skipping paths as this: A narrow, "safe" path that is not worth mapping that you move through quickly and pop out the other side. Sure, it doesn't work out perfectly (you still get there one snell faster), but it's as IC as I can make sense of it.

[Delirium]

Based on my own personal experience, returning day after day allows you to eventually open the path. Sometimes you see a path and immediately have an insight on how to open it. Other times, especially when the path is just at the limit of your ability to open, you may pass the path by several times before you even notice it. If you do notice a path but can't open it, it is my belief that by returning day after day to study it, you will eventually be struck with the insight to open it. I think this holds true at any level of ability, so if you can see the sparkles for NWF, for example, you don't need to train more PF to get in, but can get in simply by returning many times to study the path. More training would, however, make it easier for you to understand and open the path.

One speculation I have heard, but not been able to confirm, is that you must practice the paths that are difficult for you frequently, or else you loose the insight that allowed you to open the path and must re-learn the path. I am not at all sure this is true, and I think this speculation is based on experience prior to the chaos storm that is supposed to have changed PF.

One speculation I have, based on some experience, is that PF's of similar ability can point out paths to each other, but that the insight to open the paths must come from within.

As for what the paths themselves are, who can say. It seems to me that some paths must be short-cuts through other planes, though.

[Lex]

When the PF change was made (2 updates ago?) Joe said (paraphrasing) that once you can open a path, you can always open it, but some people will find themselves unable to open paths that they could open immediately before the storm.

Hopefully, this means you can now get into McB from now on. It does not say, however, that everyone with 53 ranks of PF, given enough practice, will always be able to open the same paths as each other. I'd like to think they can, but I think we'll have to wait and see as time goes on (and people keep practicing, etc.) what really happens.

[Aerick]

As to the map making sense, from what I recall on the newsgroup, HGM said that the world map basically makes sense.

Since Snaggy is rather maze-like, it could well be that Bones is north of the lake area, and then all of the Orga Outback is also north of the lakes.

I do know that there is an anamoly in E forest, when the new forest popped in, there is a place that is screwy. But HGM insisted that, by and large, the world map makes sense.

Gurgi, on the other hand, says that it's all just random teleportation from the edge of each snell, and they may as well each link to their own individual plane for all the sense it makes.

I'm impressed by the map I'm seeing developed, that everything does in fact fit together well. I was sure it wouldn't, but it seems to. Would anyone be interested in starting a screen-shot detail map of the world? That would be REALLY, really cool.

[Delirium]

Don't pay attention to Lex when it comes to pathfinding. She tried to tell me I'd never open McBolie. She was wrong[:p] .

[Nuvali]

Nuvali peers at all of you... then looks up at the moon and stars. Putting a stalk of grass in his mouth, he rises from his seat, and whispers, "Each of us arrived to this island chain at different times ... under different moons. Might not our strengths be regulated by the magic of our ... how should I put it ...? Our own ... *re-birthdays* on this island?"

Nuvali shakes his head and chuckles. "'Course... I'm no mystic. Just a thought."

[Nuvali]

OOC: Even if it had no impact on the game, wouldn't it be neat if there was a wise man or woman who could tell us the exact date/time/moon when we first arrived to Puddleby?

[Aerick]

Nuvali, you're a genius. And as far as I'm concerned, this is the REAL reason /bug was created. Just to chat and give feedback and thoughts.

The GMs probably hate me.

[Aerick]

Hmm. I was just thinking. I spent a couple of hours in the McBolie Cavern with Lundar this evening. He was trying to get some paths to open, mostly unsuccessfully. He called up Wangah, also a full PF, and Wangah was able to open both of the trouble paths.
Wangah said that he is very lucky with paths.

Perhaps we should consider that some exiles are consistently more apt at opening challlenging paths, and attempt to learn what is special about them that enables them to do that. Is it wholly reliant on the individual, or does the nature of the path play a role?
Will some be able to open underground paths more easily? Does it depend on odd factors, such as period of exile, or race, or brewing? Do you realize how glad I am that I'm not in charge of Investigations?