Take care friends

[Nuvali]

Dear Winds of Dawn,

It is with great regret that I must leave the sanctuary of so many colleagues and friends. My reasons are intangible, but despite my inability to comprehend the sum of my sadness, I must also diligantly express my gratitude to those of you who have provided so many wonderful adventures, and so much overwhelming kindness.

May Gaia embrace you all, and may there never be a questionable smile or insincere gaze between us.


Take care my friends,

Nuvali

[Maxmillian]

You too, eh Nuvali? Well, it is with sadness that I see you leave, but always know this: If you ever need a good sword arm at your back, or just some good companionship, I will always be there my friend.

Max

[Delirium]

More sadness.[:(]

I do not like being sad.

It's enough to make me want to get out my candy and bonk some heads.

No More leaving the clan! All of you, get back here right now!

OOC: Nuvali it's not completely clear from your note, but you are leaving the clan only, not the lands entirely, right?

[Konoko]

Now Nuvali too!
This really sucks! [:(] [:(] [:(] [:(] [:(]

It's almost to the point where I'm afraid to check this bulletin board. It's like the phone call in the middle of the night where someone has been hurt or worse...

What's up with everyone leaving?
What has Sargon started?

If someone does leave, they better hope they're not joining another clan or I'm not going to be very happy!


No more Don't Blow It... [:(]
That was the most fun I've had in ages...


If this is all because of the west mines map Nuvali, don't worry about it! I've already offered to help ya!


Konoko

[Konoko]

Nuvali, I hope this had nothing to do with this whole Friends of Dawn thing.

Are you leaving the clan just to become a FoD?
Your timing is eerily coincidental...


About you just stop all this foolishness! Stay in the clan and we'll make you a FoD?
How about that?

The same goes for anyone else even remotely thinking of leaving! Stay in the clan and we'll make you FoDs...
How about that?

Sargon, Tater - you too! Come back and you can become Friends of Dawn! Pretty nice, eh?


And now with our 1 year OOC anniversary coming up, it'll be a sad day with a bunch of members gone... :(


And I don't want any new members feeling pressure to be like Nuvali. Sargon, or Tater just to cheer me up... :)

Konoko

[Mehan]

/action cries loudly

[Farhope]

Bye my friend! I am sure our paths will cross each other many times :-)

[Nuvali]

Some clarification ...

My departure from WoD is in no way a departure from CL. There are a collection of reasons that I left WoD, none of which have anything to do with this great clan and its members. I wish I could go into more detail....

Please know that I will always have a place in my heart for WoD and its members, and I hope that my decision does not negatively impact all of the wonderful friendships I have made.

-Nuvali

[Kiriel]

Of course not Nuvali! We will miss you greatly, and I do hope you come join some of our events still- we missed you at the party! But hopefully you will find happiness in the path you have chosen.

[Goric]

I have to admit that I am very torn Nuvali..

I consider you amoung by best friends; not only in the clan, but in all the isles.

On the one hand, I want to say "Bye" and "take care" and "i wish you the best", but on the other, I am very angry..

How could you do this with no warning??

And without so much as 1 tangable good reason.

And this descision comes on the heels of Taters and Sargons!!!

What gives!!!

Sir Goric

[Corwin]

Nuvali -

Fare thee well, my friend.

Merry meet, merry part, and merry meet again!

ooc: I think we just have to get used to the fact that people will churn out of the clan. Other clans are seeing the same behavior. Maybe it has to do with how clans are structured in the game. And maybe the clan needs to rethink its goals - do we need to broaden our scope beyond newbie assistance? An anniversary is a good time to perform that kind of introspection. WoD has plenty of new membership, so I don't think the clan itself is in any danger of collapse, even though the departure of old friends is uncomfortable.

Corwin
Clown Opopanax

[Konoko]

I don't think we as a clan are solely focused on newbie assistance. I think this plays a big part in what we do though. We are trying to have fun ourselves as well as keep an open mind and a helping hand for all the Newbie Neds out there.

The Silver Drakes are/were also into helping newbies. But they didn't seem to want to branch out and do stuff like Dun'ilsar. I think we as a clan are pretty open and realise that as we grow ourselves, we want to be able to expand our abilities/skills. I don't think this means that we have to leave the clan or anything like that. So some of us may go adventuring in the Orga Village and other places far form any newbies. That doesn't mean that we now no longer want to help newbies. It's just for the benefit of our own personal growth. I don't want to see stuff like: "Oh I'm at 1000 ranks now - time to leave the Winds of Dawn." I'm sure we all will be willing to help newbies.


And 700 posts! Woo! For all of us currently between 700 and 800 posts, I'm buying drinks!
/action looks at the top 10 posters...
Ok - so it's just me! Don't worry - I'll have enough fun for everyone... :)

Konoko

[Corwin]

Konoko, I agree that membership in the clan doesn't bind you to newbie-related activity...and it shouldn't. I'm just saying that the primary published orientation of the clan is such. And people take such published statements to heart.

The first bullet on the "joining the Clan" page says:

Our goal is to help new exiles. Anyone who joins us should have a penchant for trying to assist those who have recently arrived in the lands.

And nothing more about what membership in the Clan entails, other than what it takes to join. This is a powerful statement.

As I recall, at least a couple of the clan members who have left made remarks similar to Tater's - that they felt they weren't upholding the goals of the clan, so they felt duty-bound to leave. As a clan we've obviously socialized our one goal very effectively. Our members really take the commitment to this one goal seriously.

Do we have other goals than just the one listed above? I think we do! I suggest the clan meet and compose a few more bullet-points about what it means to be Windy (at Dawn). There should be a new page inserted: "Clan Goals, Dreams, and the Windy Way." We've grown, both in numbers, and in experience individually. Let's leave more room in our charter for other conduct and activities so we don't guilt out our membership. (Which is not to say that members will stop churning out because of this - I just think it'll help slow the pace a bit)

Off the cuff, a couple suggestions would be:
1. Exploration
2. Unraveling mysteries
3. Mutual assistance in completing quests

We already do a brisk trade in all three subjects within these very scrolls, don't we? And don't they, in turn, support and reinforce our primary goal of helping those new to the lands? Why not incorporate them officially?

After all...the Dawn Wind can blow in ANY direction!

Corwin
Ruminating Clown

P.S. another goal suggestion: Distribution of whoopie cushions to all exiles! Woo hoo!

[Konoko]

You've summed it up wonderfully Corwin!
I think I have a tendency to ramble and you've expressed my thoughts quite well...

What do others think about perhaps adding the points Corwin mentions below?


Konoko

[Maxmillian]

Corwin, I agree with you on the idea of expanding our goals, and I like the ones you've suggested. I think that is a great idea, and one that definately needs to be pursued. However, I can't help feeling like we've suddenly gotten tunnel vision. All we are doing here is focusing on one possible reason that these friends left the clan. I, personally, have a very hard time believing that the only reason they left, was because they didn't feel that they were doing enough for new exiles. I would imagine that for each of them, Sargon, Tater, and Nuvali, that may have been a part, and the one reason that they felt comfortable giving us, but that there were other and more important reasons behind their decision. They didn't mention those reasons, but they probably were there, none-the-less.

Frankly, I don't think it's any of our business what those reasons might be, if they don't choose to share them. Personal reasons for leaving are just that - Personal. I'm just taking a shot here, as I don't know any more than the rest of you do about why they left. I guess the point I'm trying to make here, is that just because they left the clan, doesn't mean they won't join us on hunts occasionally, or come to a meeting just to say Hi and hang out, and it doesn't mean that they don't like us or want to be around us.

It took me a loooong time to decide to join a clan, and I'm proud to be a part of this one. But I must admit, it was nice in a way, to be clanless as well. No one has any expectations about you, and you are free to do whatever you please. There are no meetings to attend, and there is no guilt if you don't hunt or go on a rescue with your clanmates. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of leaving. I just am trying to point out that there are advantages and disadvantages to both being in a clan, and being clanless.

Taking a look at our goals as a clan is a good thing. Tunnel visioning on one aspect of that to try to keep others from deciding to leave is not. Members will come and members will go. It's a fact of life. You hate to see them leave, but as was said on here somewhere, be glad for them, support them, be there if they need you, and who knows, maybe they'll decide to come back. Maybe they won't, but they are still friends and former clanmates and deserve that much.

Max

[Himitsu]

I looked at Corwin's ideas about expanding the clan's goals (not relating them to keeping either existing or previous members) and I think that they are very good and provide a good basis to expanding our stated goals. I also think that more discussion should take place to get the wording down but have little to criticize at this point. [:D]

[Konoko]

It's hard to determine how to improve the clan won't really do into detail as to why they're leaving. Just saying it's personal and has nothing to do with the clan or me feeling guilty about not spending more time helping newbies or whatever. This would be fine.

However, if it is something to do with the clan and the goals or whatever and perhaps someone not feeling like they are living up to the goals, I think this is something we should know. We should we told this so we would know if things need adjusting in the clan like expanding the goals (which is a good idea nonetheless).

I think what would help is that those leaving the clan should have to do something like an exit interview or something. Perhaps the answers would help us adjust something that perhaps is preventing people from fitting in or whatever.

Konoko

[Sargon]

Um.. I'm not sure my input is wanted but...

Disclaimer: I'm only speaking for myself and not for the other ones who decided to leave. This doesn't mean they think the opposite of me neighter. It just means that I don't/can't/don't want to speak for them.

Maxmillian wrote:

All we are doing here is focusing on one possible reason that these friends left the clan. I, personally, have a very hard time believing that the only reason they left, was because they didn't feel that they were doing enough for new exiles.


There's no way I could prove that the reason I gave was the only reason why I've decided to leave the clan. All I can say is that I give you my word. Whether that means something to you is up to you.. It makes me very sad though that some of you think that I had other reasons for leaving and refused to admit it. I can imagine to have reasons I don't want to share to the public (or to the clan). Should that be the case though, I would have told you so.


And now an advice from an ex-clan member. (smiles) I wouldn't do an exit interview or something like that if someone chooses to leave.. From personal experience I can say that it's _very_ hard to come up with such a decision, especially if there's a close friendship among the clan members. If such an exit interview would be held, chances that the clan would get pseudo-reasons would increase. If the exile feels like giving a reason, fine. If he/she chooses not to, that should be respected as well. (it doesn't necessarily mean it's something bad. and there other other sources available, ie their journal one could read (wink))

Of course it's good for a clan to rethink about their goals once in a while. And there's nothing wrong with increasing the number of goals of a clan. But if you do that each time a member decides to leave the clan, you'll end up with 10000 goals in some years. One of the most attractive things about WoD is that they _really_ do help newbies a whole lot! It seems that 90% of all clans have the "help newbies and be nice and have fun" as a goal. But WoD seems to be the only clan which really lives up to this noble goal! (Silver Drakes members also help a whole lot - it's just that I almost never see any of them in the lands)

Sargon

[Maxmillian]

Sargon, I wasn't saying that all of you had more than one reason. I'll take your word that you only had one reason for leaving, since I have no cause to think otherwise. Nuvali said that he couldn't give details for his leaving, just that it had nothing to do with the clan. The point I was trying to make, is that such decisions are very seldom cut and dried, One reason and one reason only. Sometimes they are, most of the time they aren't.

And I agree with you about the clan goals, on all the points you made. Changing the goals to keep members from leaving or to get members back is not a good thing. Changing to improve the clan, is a wonderful thing.

Just a rhetorical question for you then. If the goals of the clan DO get amended to include other things, we can expect you to rejoin? [;)]

[Aerick]

Damnnit, I bet Nuvali's reason is something stupid about not getting others involved in his problems for their own protection. Nuvali, if that's why you left, you will get a check in the 'knucklehead' box. Why, if I could leave the library any these days, I'd track you down and we'd have some words.

In the meantime, best of wishes sorting yourself out, and remember, fire softens things. It is only once they've left the flame and cooled that they gain the strength of the temper.

Oh, and if I'm wrong... oops. We're still gonna open the mirror.





As for this goal discussion business, one of the founding tenets of the WoD was that the members have the flexibility to do things other than help new exiles when they want. Letting people burn out doesn't help anything, so everyone is always free to take breaks. Even if the breaks last for months. I kind of like the present system, in which no one twists your arm, and if you mention that you aren't 'pulling your weight' people on the Forum remind you that no one helps new people continually. But if each clanmember helps just a little bit every now and then, it provides a constant flow of help. And if you only cheer up the clan to help them keep on going, you're aiding the new exiles as well. Especially if you rescue others a lot. And are sylvan. With a name beginning with 'S'. ;)

[Goric]

I think that an exit interview is a good idea. Of course, this should be a voluntary thing and with no pressure at all. Actually, instead of an interiew which might imply pressure, I think it might be more appropiate to come up with a questionaire and pass that along to folks that leave or post it on the scrolls. If it was posted on the scrolls somewhere, the person thta leaves would be free to answer the questions or not and should be able to do so with no pressure at all.

Speaking of leaving, I have not come to a deffinite descision as yet, but I feel that my time may have come to leave as well.

Sir Goric

[Lilly]

I think weve been going overboard lately with the situation of people leaving. alot of jokes have been made about how we know these people havent really left, theyve just lost their senses or are on vacation...i know if i saw that in response to my leaving a clan, itd make me pretty uncomfortable, even knowing it was meant in a good natured way. I poked a bit of that kind of fun at Tater shortly after she left, and after i said it, i realized it wasnt really funny at all - it was just making her feel bad. Perhaps we should step back, accept their decisions, and let these friends go about their wishes?

Arteress Lai

[Konoko]

Sorry to hear you too are thinking of leaving Goric...
I'm tired of making speeches and asking why, and trying to see if I can get people to reconsider. And pieing them doesn't seem to draw them back... :)
But at least I have fun! :)

If you do end up leaving, I wish you the best!


Konoko

[Goric]

I decided to make it official. While I have enjoyed my time in WOD, I think its time for me to move on. I would still love to hunt with WOD when I can and I will continue to post as well. If Its OK that is!!

Sir Goric

[Althus]

You'll be sorely missed, Goric. We healers need fighters to heal!

*official sounding voice*
And the exodus continues, with two fighters and two fighters now lost to the forces of Entropy. Will our heros persevere in spite of setbacks and make it another year together? Time will tell...

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Goric
I decided to make it official. While I have enjoyed my time in WOD, I think its time for me to move on. I would still love to hunt with WOD when I can and I will continue to post as well. If Its OK that is!!

I don't understand how you can move on from a clan. From what I can see, WoD is expanding its goals and the requirements for new members is being expanded which can only be a good thing. Why would you want to move on? If part of your disgust is me being inducted without enough introductions because you abstained from my vote, I will be happy to officially leave the clan and go through the new member rules. I'd even really write a 20-page essay if that's what it took for you to not be unhappy. Really! My happiness at being a member of such a great clan is also being combined with sadness with so many people leaving so soon after I became a member. I am not saying that the two events are linked but if I can do anything to make any present or past member happy with WoD again, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

[Kiriel]

I'm sorry to hear you are leaving Goric. I wish you the best. You will always be a clanmate and friend to me. I hope you will still join us frequently on hunts and on the board.

[Konoko]

Bye Goric!
Sorry to see you go...

/ponder Sargon finally has enough people to form his own clan. That sneak... ;)

Konoko

[Althus]

Sargon still needs one more.

Uh... I'll just be... standing by the clan hut for a bit...

Just kidding! [:D]

[Sargon]

I thought 4 should be enough to found a new clan? I have Tater, Nuvali, Goric and me so far. Anyway, I don't plan to ever create a clan on my own nor do I plan to join another clan in the foreseeable future. ;)

Goric, I'm really sad you've decided to leave the clan. I think you added so much to the clan! I definitely hope you will still keep posting on... um... their message board! (hee, if ex-clan members wouldn't be welcome to post, I would know by now! ;) Your postings always show a whole lot of enthusiam and I like that! (smiles) Good luck for you in the future and hope to chain.. err see you in the lands!

/ponder I'm sure he's a great knight!
/ponder There's no doubt since he was a squire of sir Sleipnir!

Sargon

[Corwin]

Ciao, Goric! See you around the forest!

Corwin
Handkerchief-Waving Clown

[Delirium]

Oh Darn! I'm even sadder now[:(]

I'm not doing a very good job as membership coordinator. Four great new members, but four treasured old members lost. Net balance: 0.

Goric - I'm sorry for pushing you about the FoD thing, and I hope that didn't have anything to do with you leaving (but I am afraid it may have. I'm sorry.)

[Delirium]

Oh, BTW, Sargon, yes there is no doubt Goric is a great Knight, but that is despite being Sir Sleipnir's squire, not because of.

I remember that on the hunt after Sir Goric's knighting, Sleipnir seemed most rude, while Goric and Zwei were models of Knighthood.

[Mehan]

Why is everybody doing this all at once!?! All my closest friends are leaving me behind!! I'm the only Zo.. I'm so so lonely.... [:(]

[Goric]

Thank you all for your kind words. As for enthusiasm, its easy to be enthuastic about things that you care about.

Humitsu...Thank you..but my leaving really has nothing to do with you or the recent inductees. Your offer touches me though!!

I would love to continue to post and even come on some hunts if I may.

I have not decided If I will seek membership in another clan. There may even come a time when I may wish to return.

For now at least, this is for the best

Sir Goric