Use of toggling to locate fallens

[Sargon]

Hi

Toggling (unshare/share) to answer yes/no question when someone tries to locate you are very popular. Do we have a good IC explanation to use this though? As far as I know sharing is meant as 'telling a story' to someone else. So basically the share/unshare commands are just a technical implementation of this. But then, toggling sounds like a misuse of this. (maybe I should /bug it? :) There's simply no way I can start telling someone a story when I'm fallen in OC and the other person is in town square.

What are your thoughts on this? Do we know what DT's thoughts on this are? The matter seems important to me because toggling to answer questions plays an important role in our daily CL life. (be it as the fallen or as the one who locates) It dawns on (to?) me (pun intended *grins*) that the proper IC way to locate someone is to either look snell by snell or ask a mystic for help. (there! this way at least the locators would be even more useful Mystics!)

But even the looking snell by snell is almost an abuse - at least the way *I* look. I don't yell and ask for an answer, I type '/info [player]' and check whether I see the full info (meaning the player is on the snell) or partial info. Other people use the '/give 1 [player]' trick which also looks ridiculous. (how can I give 1c to someone when I've no idea where he/she is!?)

As you may still remember, it took Sargon almost 2 IC years to get his sunstone. (which he lost after 2 days by dropping and waiting too long, hee :p) Although he sometimes used StoneThatTalk to locate exiles, most of the time he couldn't afford this. He still was able to rescue people though! (of course to a smaller extend, but still) He remembered (much better than now!) when someone passed by him some minutes ago, so he could guess where he/she fell. Or he knew which places an exile would hunt preferably. (back then, Chris was almost always fallen in East Forest :) Or the type of monster he/she fell to was a big hint. (although I don't know how this can be explained IC either)

Any thoughts on this? Comments? Shrieking epitaphs?

HWC Sargon

[Kiriel]

I've always been a little troubled by this, but game mechanics make it almost necessary. My theory is that when someone toggles it's like you feel a little mental spirit pull from them.

I use /info as well, and that's harder to come up with an IC explanation for. Perhaps that too is spiritual in nature- we feel their presence.

[Farhope]

My explanation is that sharing is also a mental link.
With this mental link, we feel when someone is fallen, and to "what" she is fallen.

btw, we don't feel if someone is no more fallen :-)
I suppose that when someone is fallen, she/he can not do much, but share/unshare is still possible (like yell or speak).

If Delta Tao thinks this is a misuse, I think that we could not share/unshare so easily when fallen (but could be a problem as we still want to share the healers coming to raise us...)

[Himitsu]

If you take a look in the Temple you will see three trainers; mind, spirit, and body. It is my belief that we are all combined of these three parts and probably why it is called spirit linking. When we link our spirits to another, we can find out some information about their status. The most important is when they fall and what they fall to and eventually, where they are located. I do wish that I'd know when the person was raised because it would really make me feel a lot better when a person I like has fallen.

When a person is fallen, I believe that the person still has full access to their spirit but has lost access to their body. That's why they can talk which is with the spirit realm but can't use their sunstone (mind) or move around (body). So when you think to them and ask them to toggle if you are fallen in a certain area, you're just removing and applying this spirit link.

I can't fully explain why you can receive sunstone messages but when you try to use the sunstone when fallen you get a message that says something like "The sunstone lies as lifeless as you are." Perhaps the mind is more closely related to the body than the spirit is which is why you can't use the sunstone even though you can receive the messages.

No matter what the truth is, I believe that toggle is just an easy way of saying "remove the spirit link and apply it again if you agree with what I'm saying." I think that toggle is a definitely easy way of saying that.

As to the info... I have used it myself. It's better than yelling if you are looking for someone specific. The same thing with giving them money. I can't think of any good explanation for this so perhaps limiting their effectiveness to the same range that you can sell someone something. Maybe you have to get rather close to see their tattoo or give them money. This will not be liked by very many people but it does make more sense. I suppose they will have to get used to yelling to find people on snells or use mystics more often. It seems that most Journeyman Mystic really like the locating skill so it shouldn't be that difficult to find someone who is proficient in it.

[Konoko]

Interesting discussion Sargon. Just don't let Delta Tao hear you and agree with you. Then they'll take this ability away from us or something! :)

I think Himitsu beautifully summed up the whole spirit thing. Now as for knowing what creature someone fell to. Say Sargon falls to a rat (or a tangleberry pie or a rock candy... :). He shares with me to help get rescued. I immediately recognise Sargon's spirit link. I also learn what type of monster he died to. Perhaps when an exile starts a spirit link after dying, the last thing he/she saw is also passed on. In this case, as Sargon is becoming overcome by the rats, the last thing he sees while still alive is the rat ripping at his tasty Sylvan skin. This information is then passed on via the spirit link.


I personally use pull rather than info or the money trick. The msg from pull is easy to read through than all the info you gbet back from an info msg. And it doesn't cost me any money like the money trick... ;)

Konoko

[Lilly]

when I fall, i get a message that basically says "unshare and share your spirit link with someone to try and get their help, or type depart if you dont think help will come"

I don't think they would encourage people to do it if they didnt like the idea

Arteress Lai

[Aerick]

Does it really say that? Boy, I should fall more often...

Sargon, you should know these things, mr. orga camp!


-Aerick

[Himitsu]

I'm so embarrased.

All the times I've fallen and I totally forgot about that message.

/action crawls back into bed

:mad:

[Sargon]

Since Sargon almost never falls (*giggles*) I'm not sure about the exact wording you get when you fall, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say unshare/share. It more says something along "share with a healer (or someone else) to make them realize you need help, or depart if you have given up hope". But I'll tell you the exact wording next time Sargon falls. (read: this evening)

Still I agree that if DT would not want us to make use of the share/unshare thingy, they would disable it. I personally would like a change like this: only one share or unshare allowed within 5 minutes while fallen. This way you could still notify someone that you need help but couldn't effectively answer questions) But I realize that most people probably wouldn't want that.

And Aerick, Sargon doesn't fall in OC each time he's there! Just... often! *giggles*

Sargon

[Konoko]

/action quickly covers Sargon's mouth before Delta Tao hears his ideas...

As for the msg, I just checked a log from Sept 30th and this is the msg:
"Typing /SHARE to create a spirit link to another may improve your chances of rescue. If you have given up all hope, use /DEPART."

Konoko

[Wystii]

It is an interesting idea Sargon ... *giggles*

fwiw, seeing we are OOC ... the fallen mesgs come every 3 mins give or take 1 or 2 seconds ... so it is possible to tell if someone has been raised by watching the clock ... something that may help all those bean counters out there! (and maybe a few others ... *giggles*)

hope it helps

Wystii

[Doc]

I "blip" to locate, instead of toggling... and I do wish that others would try it.

A "blip" is a half-toggle. I use it to locate people more precisely when running after them to heal...as in...

"blip" the appoximate number of snells south of the scout where you are...

"blip" the approximate number of snells east of the scout where you are...


Another thing I do is say... "Okay I am just entering the north forest from the northeast field... Blip 1 if I go west, 2 for N, and 3 for East... 4 for back south to get to you.

That way I can follow their trail.

It's just an idea that I've found useful from time to time.

I suppose if we have this mechanism, where we can sense someone's spirit connection, it is good to milk as much information bandwidth out of it as possible! But to date I've never had anyone ask me to "blip" my location.

[Lex]

Sargon,

I don't think doing /info is an "abusive" way to look for someone. When you get the extra info (what they're holding) it's because you're close enough to see it. It makes up for not hearing a yell on the ohter side of a snell when you can hear it across a very big snell.

I think DT encourages toggling because (1) you still are fallen for a little while, so there is still a risk associated with wherever you're hunting and (2) you don't have to depend on someone passing by and hearing you (or caring) which could lead to being fallen forever unless you depart.

Lex

[Himitsu]

Originally posted by Doc
But to date I've never had anyone ask me to "blip" my location.

Maybe it's because no one has used it or thought to give it a name. I don't know how the word "toggle" came about but maybe it started by one person saying "toggle (share and unshare) if you are north of town." That way, people began to know what toggling meant and they used the word and technique when finding other fallen. So if we start saying "blip (half a toggle) if you're north of town" then more people would start using and knowing what a blip is. I certainly will use blips instead of toggles because it will make finding fallen easier.

[Althus]

I do it like this:

"Unshare if you're N of town, unsh/share for S, unsh/share/unsh for E."

Less efficient than "1 blip for N, 2 blips for S, 3 for E, 4 for another island", but blip has yet to be a widely recognized term.

[Lex]

The ultimate system would be a little like morse code. A set number of blips, then a space, then more blips, etc. to spell out exactly where you were. Every known location would be available and a "toggle map" could be made available to everyone. All someone would have to do is ask if you know the system and then to use it, and they wouldn't have to ask another question, except maybe to find the exact snell.

Of course, there's no telling how DT would resct to such a thing. *shrugs*

Lex

[Althus]

Mac-arena did that.

And then took it down because nobody used it.