Eva's Training

[Hippocrates]

Hello,
I was just wondering what percentage per rank Eva trains in Faustus, Respia, Higgrus, and Sespus (hopefully that made sense [:)]).

Thanks,
Hippocrates

[Drablak]

Thuja has the answer to that question at the following link:

http://www.puddleby.dk/eva_spirtus.txt

It compares Eva's teachings and Spirtus'.

Quite interesting.

Drablak

[Hippocrates]

Thanks Drablak! That's quite amazing what she has done, but what I don't understand is how you can put in 100 Eva ranks and come out with 136.5 ranks total. I suppose it doesn't matter and I should just be happy with it, right? [:)]

Thanks again,
Hippocrates

[Drablak]

Originally posted by Hippocrates
I don't understand is how you can put in 100 Eva ranks and come out with 136.5 ranks total

That's one of the advantages of training with a mixed trainer like Evus or Eva: you actually get more ranks than you invested. Don't ask me to explain it though :

[Sargon]

Hi


Disclaimer: I only answer this 'question' since HWC likes math - Sargon dislikes numbers. [:)]


It's probably not the most correct (my teacher would whap me for this...) but a rather helpful (imo) way to look at it like this:

We healer types have basic stats like this:

healing speed
spirit recovery
max spirit amount
max life energy


There are healer trainers, which give a +1 in one of these basic stats:

Faustus -> +1 in healing speed
Respia -> +1 in spirit recovery
Sespus -> +1 in max spirit amount
Higgrus -> +1 in max life energy

I call these guys (and gals) the basic trainers.


Then there are mixed trainers. For healers this is Eva. Eva gives a mixture of the 4 above. (and more I guess) So you get something like 0.x Faustus, 0.y, Respia etc, which adds up to something more then 1.0.

Would the mixed trainer add up to 1.0, the only reason to train with him/her would be convenience. (you can reach any ratio of the basic trainers by training with them directly)

Would the mixed trainer add up to less then 1.0, it would be something mean. (ooc: common sense tells me DT would not do that)

So since Eva gives more than 1.0, everyone who doesn't train with her must be an idiot, right? No. The disadvantage of Eva is, that she trains with a fixed ratio of the basic trainers. (ooc: that is, until next time DT fiddles around with it)

Therefore the common training advice for healers is this: Train with Eva mainly and use the other trainers only to reduce defencies in specific areas. This of course leads to 99% of all healers training Eva/Respia. [:p]

The other approach is to train with whoever you feel like training at that day. Of course you'll end up being a pretty useless healer for combat fighting and won't get thru these circle tests fast, but hey, you will have fun. :) Seriously.. some sort of training plan surely is good to have, but juggling with numbers can distract you from having fun. :) (especially if you start comparing yourself to super-healers - consider yourself warned!)

Sargon

[Hippocrates]

Thanks for the explanation Sargon. I have to admit that I am one of those Eva/Respia healers. I think I have 50 in each of those and only a few direct ranks of the others (what I get from them comes from Eva). Thank you for the advice.

I'm off to try my Second Circle test for the fifth time,
Hippocrates

[Sargon]

Please note that I didn't mean to imply that Eva/Respia healers are something bad. It's a natural way of learning the ways of healing and therefore many healers choose this path. It's probably not the most exciting path to go but it's rewarding both when it comes to circle tests and as a combat healer, and you don't intend do specialize in something like Horus (a 2nd circle healer trainer), as Koric/Lorikeet do.

I've trained almost exclusively with Eva until I passed the 3rd circle test. Since then (about 2 puddleyears ago, I think) I always find a good excuse to not train with her and train something else. :)

/ponder Good thing we don't have to re-do the tests every once in a while...

Good luck and lots of fun on your journey, Hippocrates!

Sargon

[Delirium]

It's probably not the most exciting path to go but it's rewarding both when it comes to circle tests and as a combat healer, and you don't intend do specialize in something like Horus (a 2nd circle healer trainer), as Koric/Lorikeet do.

Speak for yourself Sargon! I train with Thuja (Eva and Respia) as well as Koric (Horus) extensively. There is no reason one cannot be a Eva/Respia/Horus healer. AND have fun doing it![:p]

[Hippocrates]

Here's something I never understood. I've heard many people say that they train with Master Thuja or Master Koric. They aren't NPC's, right? Are these players so experienced that they actually train others, or are these adages said to mean something else?

Hippocrates

[Delirium]

Exiles who become very skilled in a trainer's teachings may be offered a training ledger. An Exile with a training ledger can then train other exiles. Thuja has ledgers with both Eva and Respia, while Koric has a training ledger from Horus. I prefer to train with exiles who go out in the field rather than trainers who sit in a training hall all day. Our clan mate Farhope maintains a list of all the exile trainers, which you can find on her scrolls.

[Nephilim]

There are exiles who can teach other exiles, for example Thuja. I train with Thuja myself at the moment. She is not as stiff as the ordinary teachers.

[Hippocrates]

So, how does that work. Let me clear up something first. She isn't a NPC, right? I can't imagine myself bumping into her, seeing a flash, and then hearing a sound.

Hippocrates

[Delirium]

You must ask an exile trainer to train you, and you need to share her as well. If you ask nicely, an exile with a ledger may offer to train you, and when she does so, you will know how to respond (ooc you get a message with instructions on the proper response). When you share , an exile trainer can also tell you how you are progressing.

[Farhope]

About exile-trainers, I have tried to answer the questions in my scroll:
http://farhope.puddleby.dk/trainers/faq.html

[Delirium]

I was just looking at Farhope's page. I see that The Good Cat is listed as the only spiritus trainer. I thought there was another?

[Althus]

Nope, there isn't. To the great frustration of Lard Almighty, Sephroth, Tuzar Bloodblade, and Hidden. It seems the rank requirement for Spirtus skyrockets for the next ledger, predicted to be received at 1000 or 1100 (like the Eva ledger).

Blah. TGC is even a library character, too.

[Mehan]

I'm definitely an Eva healer. And I think I handle my own pretty well [:p]


Right now I, sadly, only have 220 Eva. *sniffle* and I've been meaning to get more. After I get my 100 proxi I'm switching back to Eva. She's my Idol.

As for all those numbers, and blah, I don't pay attention. I think Eva is a great, balanced, trainer. That's why I train her. And like I said, I think I hold my own pretty durn well.

[Wystii]

I think you're a great healer too Mehan!!!

Not that my opinion is worth much ... *sigh*

May the Goddess bless you

Wystii

[Aerick]

When I first came to the lands, I assumed that there would be a cost to training with Eva, and the rank gain would be less efficient. Especially back in the first ranks of training, I'd pick up 2 Faustus, then need to switch to Respia for 4 ranks, then Sespus for 2 then another Respia, and really, really, super fine tuning.

I thought it'd get me ahead in life. Didn't know I was losing a potential 40% gain, and giving myself a headache for when I accidentally picked up several ranks in a row.

I know I'd get attacked and run out of town if I said that I dislike Eva because of this, so I'll just mention that we have some friction, but I don't think she realizes it, since I've become dependent on her, and learned long ago to swallow my pride.

I still think you should be rewarded for taking the lazy way out, though.

-Aerick

[Delirium]

Mehan, you do quite well. But where are your other 200-300 ranks? I don't keep exact count either, but I have about 150 Eva, over 150 respia (trained + eva), working on getting to toes in Horus (currently better student), toes in marsh hermit, better student of bodrus, enough ranks to use my ring (30), and about 30 other misc. ranks.

[Mehan]

With my 200 eva, Faustus and Respia were both better pupils or toes, can't remember which. All were better pupils actually I think. I got Faustus to toes, Respia to 150, higgy to 100 and of course Proxi :) I have some PF, and Horus, but I'm basically a little healer :) Won't be a lady for some time I think.

[Mehan]

Ah yes, my ring, and languages and all that jazz. Hehe, forgot those.

[Delirium]

Just how many ranks is Lady/Lord, anyway? I think we are both close, but I have had both 500 ranks and 550 ranks.

[Althus]

Lord/Lady is 550.

[Altir]

/pose thoughtful

Ah dinna understand. Doth Thuja hath 2 trainin ledgers? Or one ledger fer both Respia 'n Eva? So if yer trainin with her, are ye trainin with both Respia 'n Eva?

O' course ah canna train that but would help me ta understand what happens with folks with multiple trainins.

Thankye, Altir

[Mehan]

Nah, I'm nowhere near lady. I'm just a little Zo. [:p]

[Althus]

Originally posted by the Dawn Dorf
Ah dinna understand. Doth Thuja hath 2 trainin ledgers? Or one ledger fer both Respia 'n Eva? So if yer trainin with her, are ye trainin with both Respia 'n Eva?

O' course ah canna train that but would help me ta understand what happens with folks with multiple trainins.

Thuja can train in EITHER respia or Eva, but she can't train you in both at once. At any rate, she's the only one with two vastly differnet ledgers (I think there's a fighter with both balthus and swengus) and it'll be a while before there are more.

[Delirium]

I thought Eva gave about 30% respia - I think calling them vastly different is overstating the case.

[Althus]

With 2000 Eva and nothing else you lose spirit while healing, probably almost instantly. With 2000 Respia, you gain spirit back in one frame, and never lose health or spirit while healing. I call that vastly different, YMMV.

[Delirium]

My point was that Eva ranks help you get a respia ledger, just as swingus ranks help you get a balthus ledger (if I understand the fighter trainers). Thus, neither is vastly different in my book. Now, a sewing ledger and an eva ledger, that would be vastly different.

[Althus]

Ok, fine. Just plain "different" then.

Eva ranks serve a different purpose than Respia ranks.
Swengus ranks and balthus ranks serve roughly the same purpose.